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That is a really interesting response and I hadn't considered any of it. TIL. Relating to this: > so what's going on here is that local mining companies are f

by hkt 3y ago

That is a really interesting response and I hadn't considered any of it. TIL. Relating to this: > so what's going on here is that local mining companies are fishing for government subsidies with rhetoric about sovereignty based on a completely imaginary phosphate shortage crisis Is this kind of the same as the occasional panics about rare earths? My understanding is that they're not really that rare but the environmental impacts and costs of extraction are both high enough that in essence, nobody wants to bother for so long as it remains someone else's problem and the materials remain available.

kragen 3y ago
very similar, yeah, except that the most abundant rare earth metal is cerium, which is 20 times less common than phosphorus. also prc did try to corner the market on rare earth metals about 15 years ago, causing a huge price spike, which has never happened with phosphate and probably never will. see https://pubs.usgs.gov/periodicals/mcs2023/mcs2023-phosphate.pdf https://pubs.usgs.gov/periodicals/mcs2023/mcs2023-phosphate.... https://www.usgs.gov/centers/national-minerals-information-center/phosphate-rock-statistics-and-information https://www.usgs.gov/centers/national-minerals-information-c... even though rare earth metals are much less abundant than phosphorus, they still aren't rare. elements rarer than cerium include copper, nitrogen, lead, tin, tungsten, and fortunately arsenic
- Chris2048 3y ago
  > elements rarer than cerium include copper, nitrogen, lead, tin, tungsten rarer in the sense of % on (in) earth, or % in the crust? I would have thought nitrogen requiring no mining would make it easier to obtain, even if technically rare?
  - pfdietz 3y ago
    Nitrogen is not common in the Earth, but is highly enriched in the atmosphere. Similarly, uranium is orders of magnitude more abundant in the continental crust than it is in the rest of the Earth.

by hkt 3y ago

kragen 3y ago

very similar, yeah, except that the most abundant rare earth metal is cerium, which is 20 times less common than phosphorus. also prc did try to corner the market on rare earth metals about 15 years ago, causing a huge price spike, which has never happened with phosphate and probably never will. see https://pubs.usgs.gov/periodicals/mcs2023/mcs2023-phosphate.pdf https://pubs.usgs.gov/periodicals/mcs2023/mcs2023-phosphate.... https://www.usgs.gov/centers/national-minerals-information-center/phosphate-rock-statistics-and-information https://www.usgs.gov/centers/national-minerals-information-c... even though rare earth metals are much less abundant than phosphorus, they still aren't rare. elements rarer than cerium include copper, nitrogen, lead, tin, tungsten, and fortunately arsenic

Chris2048 3y ago
> elements rarer than cerium include copper, nitrogen, lead, tin, tungsten rarer in the sense of % on (in) earth, or % in the crust? I would have thought nitrogen requiring no mining would make it easier to obtain, even if technically rare?
- pfdietz 3y ago
  Nitrogen is not common in the Earth, but is highly enriched in the atmosphere. Similarly, uranium is orders of magnitude more abundant in the continental crust than it is in the rest of the Earth.