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I feel sick everything time when I see C++ related stuff, simple & fun programming got so complicated just because some big name "committee members" who insist

by tw1984 3y ago

I feel sick everything time when I see C++ related stuff, simple & fun programming got so complicated just because some big name "committee members" who insist to spend 30 years to standardize networking/filesystem/reflection refuse to simplify their craps. yes, they haven't got that completed yet. I guess we can wait another 30 years and there will be a C implementation of the C++ reflection or networking?

lelanthran 3y ago
> I guess we can wait another 30 years and there will be a C implementation of the C++ reflection or networking? You don't really need to wait if you're willing to use Objective C with the GnuStep framework. You'll get reflection, and a lot of other nice addons[1]. [1] Dunno about network support; ISTR it being part of the GnuStep framework, but could be wrong.
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- cornel_io 3y ago
  "Stop trying to make 'Objective C' happen" ...is what all non-Apple programmers have been begging ever since the iPhone came out.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    FWIW, I'm a non-Apple developer: never wrote a single line of code for any Apple device for production. Ported some of my libraries over to Mac OS about a decade back, but that was it.
  - wsc981 3y ago
    I thought (and still think) Objective-C is quite nice. Kinda hoping my employer wants to port (wrap) it’s C++ based library to Objective-C (and Swift) in the coming year. I’d be the primary guy doing the work and I’d enjoy it :)
physicsguy 3y ago
You can always just use Boost. I don't think I've ever worked on a C++ project that didn't use it! std::filesystem = boost::filesystem - 1.30.0, 2003 std::optional = boost::optional - 1.30.0, 2003
- jb1991 3y ago
  Keep in mind that when boost features are eventually adopted into the C++ standard library, it is often only after their implementation has been strictly defined in ways that diverge from the boost implementations, which are often inefficient. Boost contains a lot of full-featured but inefficient code; for example, some Boost tools allow for arbitrary memory allocation which is often undesirable and their standard library versions do not allow for it. There are other design issues as well, such as how to consistently handle exceptions in edge cases, etc. Boost versions of some of these don't as comprehensively consider those situations.
  - physicsguy 3y ago
    Of course, but aside from standardisation defined details, it also depends on your compiler's standard library implementation, and those are not all made equal, especially if you've got to build something both for Windows and Linux.
    - jb1991 3y ago
      Well, your compiler's standard library implementation should follow the C++ standard, and if your code expects what the standard requires, in most cases you should be fine. The problem is when code is written with certain behavior in mind that is not in the standard because the developer has gotten used to a particular compiler's liberties that extend beyond the standard, and then if they port to another platform, complications can ensue.
- suby 3y ago
  There is no reasonable solution to reflection. That we don't have an official solution here is an indictment of the C++ update process. Look to projects like Unreal Engine to see the horror and lengths that real projects have to go through to get around this.
PhilipRoman 3y ago
God I wish everything was done in this way. Even the C standards committee moves too fast and adds features that have no place in the standard.
- tw1984 3y ago
  Well, there are people who choose to stay away from social and technical progress. I totally respect that desire.
  - badpun 3y ago
    "Social progress" got us the holocaust and tens of millions killed by communism, though. It's perfectly reasonable to be wary of it.
    - Maken 3y ago
      It also ended serfdom. Being wary of change is usually the excuse to perpetuate awful systems in both technology and society.
      - badpun 3y ago
        > Being wary of change is usually the excuse to perpetuate awful systems in both technology and society. Do you have any evidence to back that "usually" claim? I'm from a country that went through the horrors of malicious forced social change (under Communism), and most people who warm against it just don't want it ever to return.
        tw1984 3y ago
        > I'm from a country that went through the horrors of malicious forced social change (under Communism) I call communism cancer, let's be crystal clear about that first. Because of such permanent hate towards communism, I am deeply concerned as more and more countries are developing into de facto communism. Huge amount of $ were handed out to the public during COVID-19, in normal days you also see nonsenses like public housing and so called free health care which are actually covered by other hard working average tax payers - they are forced to cover other people's problem. In the end, many people got brainwashed to believe that there is a state that looks after everyone. Such typical communist way of thinking is horrible at best. I'd willing to bet that your country is just one of the above described one. You should be very concerned. Communism isn't dead, it just got itself a slightly different skin.

by tw1984 3y ago

lelanthran 3y ago

> I guess we can wait another 30 years and there will be a C implementation of the C++ reflection or networking? You don't really need to wait if you're willing to use Objective C with the GnuStep framework. You'll get reflection, and a lot of other nice addons[1]. [1] Dunno about network support; ISTR it being part of the GnuStep framework, but could be wrong.

deleted 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago
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cornel_io 3y ago
"Stop trying to make 'Objective C' happen" ...is what all non-Apple programmers have been begging ever since the iPhone came out.
- lelanthran 3y ago
  FWIW, I'm a non-Apple developer: never wrote a single line of code for any Apple device for production. Ported some of my libraries over to Mac OS about a decade back, but that was it.
- wsc981 3y ago
  I thought (and still think) Objective-C is quite nice. Kinda hoping my employer wants to port (wrap) it’s C++ based library to Objective-C (and Swift) in the coming year. I’d be the primary guy doing the work and I’d enjoy it :)

physicsguy 3y ago

You can always just use Boost. I don't think I've ever worked on a C++ project that didn't use it! std::filesystem = boost::filesystem - 1.30.0, 2003 std::optional = boost::optional - 1.30.0, 2003

jb1991 3y ago
Keep in mind that when boost features are eventually adopted into the C++ standard library, it is often only after their implementation has been strictly defined in ways that diverge from the boost implementations, which are often inefficient. Boost contains a lot of full-featured but inefficient code; for example, some Boost tools allow for arbitrary memory allocation which is often undesirable and their standard library versions do not allow for it. There are other design issues as well, such as how to consistently handle exceptions in edge cases, etc. Boost versions of some of these don't as comprehensively consider those situations.
- physicsguy 3y ago
  Of course, but aside from standardisation defined details, it also depends on your compiler's standard library implementation, and those are not all made equal, especially if you've got to build something both for Windows and Linux.
  - jb1991 3y ago
    Well, your compiler's standard library implementation should follow the C++ standard, and if your code expects what the standard requires, in most cases you should be fine. The problem is when code is written with certain behavior in mind that is not in the standard because the developer has gotten used to a particular compiler's liberties that extend beyond the standard, and then if they port to another platform, complications can ensue.
suby 3y ago
There is no reasonable solution to reflection. That we don't have an official solution here is an indictment of the C++ update process. Look to projects like Unreal Engine to see the horror and lengths that real projects have to go through to get around this.

PhilipRoman 3y ago

God I wish everything was done in this way. Even the C standards committee moves too fast and adds features that have no place in the standard.

tw1984 3y ago
Well, there are people who choose to stay away from social and technical progress. I totally respect that desire.
- badpun 3y ago
  "Social progress" got us the holocaust and tens of millions killed by communism, though. It's perfectly reasonable to be wary of it.
  - Maken 3y ago
    It also ended serfdom. Being wary of change is usually the excuse to perpetuate awful systems in both technology and society.
    - badpun 3y ago
      > Being wary of change is usually the excuse to perpetuate awful systems in both technology and society. Do you have any evidence to back that "usually" claim? I'm from a country that went through the horrors of malicious forced social change (under Communism), and most people who warm against it just don't want it ever to return.
      - tw1984 3y ago
        > I'm from a country that went through the horrors of malicious forced social change (under Communism) I call communism cancer, let's be crystal clear about that first. Because of such permanent hate towards communism, I am deeply concerned as more and more countries are developing into de facto communism. Huge amount of $ were handed out to the public during COVID-19, in normal days you also see nonsenses like public housing and so called free health care which are actually covered by other hard working average tax payers - they are forced to cover other people's problem. In the end, many people got brainwashed to believe that there is a state that looks after everyone. Such typical communist way of thinking is horrible at best. I'd willing to bet that your country is just one of the above described one. You should be very concerned. Communism isn't dead, it just got itself a slightly different skin.