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Getting browsers to implement it as a matter of legal requirement is another huge issue. My proposal is for the government itself to do blind age verification

by _8j50 3y ago

Getting browsers to implement it as a matter of legal requirement is another huge issue. My proposal is for the government itself to do blind age verification on their own site and issue an expiring token scoped to the user's IP. The porn site would load JS from the gov site or from its own servers that pops up age verification prompt loaded from the government site, gets the signed token to be verified by the porn site. What the government does to verify age is up to them but my approach would be to verify that they have a valid payment card or a mobile phone number (verified by sms code) where the screenshot of their ID matches whoever is an adult part of the phone subscription plan. Ideally, verification is done once and all you do is login. I said blind verification because you can have it so that the gov site doesn't know from what site the verification is requested. This can also be applied for social media and other restrictions. You all can disagree ideologically but this happening. I think it's best to discuss how to do this in a way that respects the privacy of users without allowing middle parties to abuse it.

brightlancer 3y ago
Government mandates are never going to get some sites to comply, so why is government threatening the companies who _want_ to comply? If we removed the legal mandate, we could do this with voluntary industry support. MindGeek owns not just PornHub but tons of other sites -- if they said "We'll publish this header; dear Mozilla and Google, please support/ build parental controls that check for this header," then most other mainstream porn sites would join in too. People shouldn't have to tell the government they're going to read a (dirty) book, and they shouldn't have to identify themselves to porn businesses.
- _8j50 3y ago
  > People shouldn't have to tell the government they're going to read a (dirty) book Libraries and book stores can and do ask IDs for adult books (less so these days). Same thing. They should identify themselves to the gov, porn sites should only get prood of a succesful identification without identifying users. The gov can id you but it shouldn't know what sigtes you visit. That way your privacy is protected. > Government mandates are never going to get some sites to comply They can force US sites and fine/prosecute. The rest, they can order ISPs to block them for non-compliance. > If we removed the legal mandate, we could do this with voluntary industry support The industry has had decades of pleading from child safety advocates. It's like saying tobacco companies should be trusted with tobacco warnings and working with store owners on making sure minors are ID'd before a sale. Many in the porn industry strongly feel any teenager should be able to watch porn and many more believe people can get porn anyways so there is no point. They have faced lawsuits and investigations and many countries have been banning them for a long time over this concern so your reasoning that suddenly they will voluntarily work with browsers makes little sense to me. Perhaps the gov can have some working group under FTC to come up with a tech thar enforces the law and porn sites can work with it and i see no problem including browser makers but at the end of the day just like any id verification system, someone has to be responsible for the verification. Where my idea deviates is that I believe the gov should be responsible for enforcing it's own laws and public key crypto can effectively split the responsibility of verifying age and making sure only verified users have access.

by _8j50 3y ago

brightlancer 3y ago

Government mandates are never going to get some sites to comply, so why is government threatening the companies who _want_ to comply? If we removed the legal mandate, we could do this with voluntary industry support. MindGeek owns not just PornHub but tons of other sites -- if they said "We'll publish this header; dear Mozilla and Google, please support/ build parental controls that check for this header," then most other mainstream porn sites would join in too. People shouldn't have to tell the government they're going to read a (dirty) book, and they shouldn't have to identify themselves to porn businesses.

_8j50 3y ago
> People shouldn't have to tell the government they're going to read a (dirty) book Libraries and book stores can and do ask IDs for adult books (less so these days). Same thing. They should identify themselves to the gov, porn sites should only get prood of a succesful identification without identifying users. The gov can id you but it shouldn't know what sigtes you visit. That way your privacy is protected. > Government mandates are never going to get some sites to comply They can force US sites and fine/prosecute. The rest, they can order ISPs to block them for non-compliance. > If we removed the legal mandate, we could do this with voluntary industry support The industry has had decades of pleading from child safety advocates. It's like saying tobacco companies should be trusted with tobacco warnings and working with store owners on making sure minors are ID'd before a sale. Many in the porn industry strongly feel any teenager should be able to watch porn and many more believe people can get porn anyways so there is no point. They have faced lawsuits and investigations and many countries have been banning them for a long time over this concern so your reasoning that suddenly they will voluntarily work with browsers makes little sense to me. Perhaps the gov can have some working group under FTC to come up with a tech thar enforces the law and porn sites can work with it and i see no problem including browser makers but at the end of the day just like any id verification system, someone has to be responsible for the verification. Where my idea deviates is that I believe the gov should be responsible for enforcing it's own laws and public key crypto can effectively split the responsibility of verifying age and making sure only verified users have access.