7 ms·

Apple: 514,000 US Jobs Created

25 points by siglesias 15y ago

iamtoby2003 15y ago
how many jobs do they create oversea?
- gscott 15y ago
  FoxConn has (apparently) about 920,000 employees. Assuming 1/3rd of them work only making Apple products then triple that number based upon the ancillary jobs supporting those employees (any sub manufacturing) like how Apple's website calculates I think it would end up being 920,000 people have jobs in China because of Apple. http://www.outsaurus.com/2011/08/01/outsourced-apple-500000-jobs/ http://www.outsaurus.com/2011/08/01/outsourced-apple-500000-...
  - RandallBrown 15y ago
    1/3rd seems really high. FoxConn makes lots of other things besides Apple Products.
    - pm90 15y ago
      Besides, the disparity of labor costs makes it difficult to make a comparison between "number of Jobs"
      - gscott 15y ago
        But the employees labor 60 hours a week, you can essentially count them as 1.5 employees.
        deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
pedalpete 15y ago
why not include the farmers who raised the cattle that fed the hamburger to the truck driver. seriously, this is PR out of control, yet there are those who will look at this and say 'Apple employs 1/2 million americans'. Note, they include the people who 'build the planes and trucks' (I didn't realize the page scrolled at first).
- quesera 15y ago
  Standard accounting practice, developed by the US govt explicitly for this purpose. Seriously, if you're a multinational getting static for your global manufacturing organization from miscellaneous congreesspeople who don't understand economics, what tabulation methodology would you choose to make your point? Edit: note, obviously that they don't include all employees of the corps that make planes and deliver boxes, just the share of employees that exist to serve the volume of business that Apple creates. This is not RIAA style accounting.
  - mcantelon 15y ago
    >what tabulation methodology would you choose to make your point? Having a headline about "Creating jobs" next to a map with a number that isn't actually the number of jobs created is misleading.
    - quesera 15y ago
      I disagree. The volume of business that Apple creates for UPS, etc, literally creates these jobs. That's neither dishonest nor misleading, in my opinion, but I agree that the first time I saw an "economic impact assessment" that included such a large number of jobs, I assumed the implication was that the company in question had these people directly on payroll. It's more complicated than that.
      - mcantelon 15y ago
        >The volume of business that Apple creates for UPS, etc, literally creates these jobs. By the same logic Foxconn could argue that it's creating jobs because it makes things that get shipped around as well.
bberrry 15y ago
One Jobs was enough, this is a nightmare.
starfox 15y ago
Apple doesn't want one of these presidential hopefuls to start campaigning on the platform that the second largest US company needs to start creating jobs in the US.
Maascamp 15y ago
"For example, this figure also includes... FedEx and UPS employees." Well, I'm sorry to hear that FedEx and UPS are responsible for creating far fewer jobs than I previously thought.
talmand 15y ago
I'd like to see the research supporting these numbers. I'm curious as to how they determine the number of jobs created via their app economy. Many of the jobs they list do not belong to them and they may actually play a small part in the job itself. Unless they own the transportation company they can't lay claim to the truck driver's job since he's probably delivering stuff for other companies at the same time. How did Apple create or support healthcare jobs? People working to build their stores is a short-term deal. Similar to the truck driver example, unless they own the construction company they can't take credit for the entire job. I'm not saying they cannot lay claim to a great deal of success because most of what they say is probably true. But unless they break the numbers down to realistic examples of jobs created and jobs supported then the numbers they provide is misleading. Especially when they just lump them all together into one big number that makes them look good.
chrisacky 15y ago
This is beyond pathetic. Who exactly are Apple trying to impress with this? To summarise, they highlight 514k US jobs created of supported by Apple. Now the two operative word in that sentence is "US", and "supported". 1. Direct jobs created for US citizens who are on Apple's payroll is a fraction of this. (47k), so about 9%. 2. They say US jobs, because do you realise how much they outsource? I personally don't have a major issue with outsourcing. Go where ever the labour is cheap. (And in Apples defence they do try and stay as transparent as possible with Foxconn and employee treatment ethics). Obama asked Jobs directly once, "what will it take to bring Apple manufacturing back to the States". That is never going to happen. But again, I don't have an issue with that, but spinning their profiteering into philanthropy is utter crock-shit. Do you realise the jobs they are listing within their "supporting" grouping? - Business Sales - Healthcare - Customer Sales - Transportation Who are they including in this? BestBuy employees? The 40% of private Doctors that now say they use as iPad professionally and the FedEx employees who ship the goods on overnight freight? I'm just suprised they left off the pilots who carry the cargo. They could have squeezed another 400 jobs into that number for sure. Ultimately, 99% of these people all had jobs before Apple. The truck driver delivered his goods. The healthcare professional was still practicing and the salesmen were still selling. (How by the way does Apple create healthcare jobs?) Don't read this for anything more than it is. PR bullshit. Do you know what Apple doesn't want? Some campaign runner trying to decrease US unemployment numbers by saying that the largest US technology company needs to start employing more people. This is a pre-emptive PR measure.
- quesera 15y ago
  You are not making sense. Apple sells more product outside the US, too, so who's to begrudge them having a large percentage of employees overseas? The rest of your accounting complaints are simply not true. If Apple represents 1% of UPS delivery business, they can rightfully claim to have created 1% of the UPS delivery person jobs. And of course it's PR. It's PR designed to counteract some clueless congresspeople asking for economic impossibilities from a very visible US success story. But it's honest PR. Such things do exist.
  - chrisacky 15y ago
zerostar07 15y ago
Americans should be thanking Foxconn for supporting more than 50,000,000 American jobs. Way to go foxconn!

25 points by siglesias 15y ago

iamtoby2003 15y ago

how many jobs do they create oversea?

gscott 15y ago
FoxConn has (apparently) about 920,000 employees. Assuming 1/3rd of them work only making Apple products then triple that number based upon the ancillary jobs supporting those employees (any sub manufacturing) like how Apple's website calculates I think it would end up being 920,000 people have jobs in China because of Apple. http://www.outsaurus.com/2011/08/01/outsourced-apple-500000-jobs/ http://www.outsaurus.com/2011/08/01/outsourced-apple-500000-...
- RandallBrown 15y ago
  1/3rd seems really high. FoxConn makes lots of other things besides Apple Products.
  - pm90 15y ago
    Besides, the disparity of labor costs makes it difficult to make a comparison between "number of Jobs"
    - gscott 15y ago
      But the employees labor 60 hours a week, you can essentially count them as 1.5 employees.
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]

pedalpete 15y ago

why not include the farmers who raised the cattle that fed the hamburger to the truck driver. seriously, this is PR out of control, yet there are those who will look at this and say 'Apple employs 1/2 million americans'. Note, they include the people who 'build the planes and trucks' (I didn't realize the page scrolled at first).

quesera 15y ago
Standard accounting practice, developed by the US govt explicitly for this purpose. Seriously, if you're a multinational getting static for your global manufacturing organization from miscellaneous congreesspeople who don't understand economics, what tabulation methodology would you choose to make your point? Edit: note, obviously that they don't include all employees of the corps that make planes and deliver boxes, just the share of employees that exist to serve the volume of business that Apple creates. This is not RIAA style accounting.
- mcantelon 15y ago
  >what tabulation methodology would you choose to make your point? Having a headline about "Creating jobs" next to a map with a number that isn't actually the number of jobs created is misleading.
  - quesera 15y ago
    I disagree. The volume of business that Apple creates for UPS, etc, literally creates these jobs. That's neither dishonest nor misleading, in my opinion, but I agree that the first time I saw an "economic impact assessment" that included such a large number of jobs, I assumed the implication was that the company in question had these people directly on payroll. It's more complicated than that.
    - mcantelon 15y ago
      >The volume of business that Apple creates for UPS, etc, literally creates these jobs. By the same logic Foxconn could argue that it's creating jobs because it makes things that get shipped around as well.

bberrry 15y ago

One Jobs was enough, this is a nightmare.

starfox 15y ago

Apple doesn't want one of these presidential hopefuls to start campaigning on the platform that the second largest US company needs to start creating jobs in the US.

Maascamp 15y ago

"For example, this figure also includes... FedEx and UPS employees." Well, I'm sorry to hear that FedEx and UPS are responsible for creating far fewer jobs than I previously thought.

talmand 15y ago

I'd like to see the research supporting these numbers. I'm curious as to how they determine the number of jobs created via their app economy. Many of the jobs they list do not belong to them and they may actually play a small part in the job itself. Unless they own the transportation company they can't lay claim to the truck driver's job since he's probably delivering stuff for other companies at the same time. How did Apple create or support healthcare jobs? People working to build their stores is a short-term deal. Similar to the truck driver example, unless they own the construction company they can't take credit for the entire job. I'm not saying they cannot lay claim to a great deal of success because most of what they say is probably true. But unless they break the numbers down to realistic examples of jobs created and jobs supported then the numbers they provide is misleading. Especially when they just lump them all together into one big number that makes them look good.

chrisacky 15y ago

This is beyond pathetic. Who exactly are Apple trying to impress with this? To summarise, they highlight 514k US jobs created of supported by Apple. Now the two operative word in that sentence is "US", and "supported". 1. Direct jobs created for US citizens who are on Apple's payroll is a fraction of this. (47k), so about 9%. 2. They say US jobs, because do you realise how much they outsource? I personally don't have a major issue with outsourcing. Go where ever the labour is cheap. (And in Apples defence they do try and stay as transparent as possible with Foxconn and employee treatment ethics). Obama asked Jobs directly once, "what will it take to bring Apple manufacturing back to the States". That is never going to happen. But again, I don't have an issue with that, but spinning their profiteering into philanthropy is utter crock-shit. Do you realise the jobs they are listing within their "supporting" grouping? - Business Sales - Healthcare - Customer Sales - Transportation Who are they including in this? BestBuy employees? The 40% of private Doctors that now say they use as iPad professionally and the FedEx employees who ship the goods on overnight freight? I'm just suprised they left off the pilots who carry the cargo. They could have squeezed another 400 jobs into that number for sure. Ultimately, 99% of these people all had jobs before Apple. The truck driver delivered his goods. The healthcare professional was still practicing and the salesmen were still selling. (How by the way does Apple create healthcare jobs?) Don't read this for anything more than it is. PR bullshit. Do you know what Apple doesn't want? Some campaign runner trying to decrease US unemployment numbers by saying that the largest US technology company needs to start employing more people. This is a pre-emptive PR measure.

quesera 15y ago
You are not making sense. Apple sells more product outside the US, too, so who's to begrudge them having a large percentage of employees overseas? The rest of your accounting complaints are simply not true. If Apple represents 1% of UPS delivery business, they can rightfully claim to have created 1% of the UPS delivery person jobs. And of course it's PR. It's PR designed to counteract some clueless congresspeople asking for economic impossibilities from a very visible US success story. But it's honest PR. Such things do exist.
- chrisacky 15y ago

zerostar07 15y ago

Americans should be thanking Foxconn for supporting more than 50,000,000 American jobs. Way to go foxconn!