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Dehumanising is Dehumanising, nothing to do with my skin, I'm not Russian or Ukrainian.

by Guthur 3y ago

_kbh_ 3y ago
> Dehumanising is Dehumanising, nothing to do with my skin, I'm not Russian or Ukrainian. Regardless of what your background is saying someone making light of fascists invaders is dehumanising requires you to have a super thin skin. If they didn’t want to be called orcs maybe they should stop acting like them.
- Guthur 3y ago
  You really believe that's how it works? that russians can just choose not to be involved. Like the east Ukrainians can just choose to be autonomous?
  - _kbh_ 3y ago
    > You really believe that's how it works? that russians can just choose not to be involved. Yes. The Russians chose to invade, they choose to continue to occupy Ukraine and they choose to both commit terrible war crimes and act like idiots. > Like the east Ukrainians can just choose to be autonomous? This is a false equivalency. Do you think it was wrong to call the Nazis monsters?, a Orc is merely a monster, calling someone a Orc is no less dehumanising than saying someones particularly heinous actions were monstrous. What do you think of the Russian talking points that dehumanise the entire country of Ukraine and talks about them in a way that pretty much precludes that they are fake people and should be genocide'd if need be?.
    - Guthur 3y ago
      How is it false equivalency, you seem to think that individuals can choose whatever they individually believe is right i.e. an individual in Russia can some how chose not to be involved in the ongoing conflict. And so if that is true it must be just as simple for someone within Ukraine to chose a different path and not be part of the country we call Ukraine. Orc is non-human, it is dehumanizing. And I'm not sure we both agree what the Nazi ideology is. For me Nazi is someone who follows a race based ideology that aims to dehumanize or otherwise segegrate elements of humanity as being of a lower category. Fake country and fake human is a false equivalency. Humans are living conscious beings of a category that we all belong to. Countries are a further category we've invented for...reasons. I've not seen evidence that the people in the area we call Russia have claimed that the humans in the area we call Ukraine are some how non-humans. But in contrast none of us are here denying that Ukriane openly refers to Russians as a non-human category.
      - _kbh_ 3y ago
        > How is it false equivalency, you seem to think that individuals can choose whatever they individually believe is right i.e. an individual in Russia can some how chose not to be involved in the ongoing conflict. Yes there is an always free will, regardless of the consequences. "I was just following orders" as an excuse for doing terrible things didn't fly with the Nazis and it shouldn't fly now. > Orc is non-human, it is dehumanizing. And I'm not sure we both agree what the Nazi ideology is. For me Nazi is someone who follows a race based ideology that aims to dehumanize or otherwise segegrate elements of humanity as being of a lower category. Monsters are non-human, it is dehumanising. Calling Nazi's monsters is dehumanising right?. > I've not seen evidence that the people in the area we call Russia have claimed that the humans in the area we call Ukraine are some how non-humans. But in contrast none of us are here denying that Ukriane openly refers to Russians as a non-human category. It has happened plenty, from government officials. https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-soldiers-monsters-secret-experiments-biolabs-us-1725908 https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-soldiers-monsters-se... > Russian officials claimed on Monday that Ukrainian soldiers have been turned into "monsters" in "secret experiments" in biological laboratories in Ukraine funded by the United States government. You didn't look very hard did you?. You also never answered the question if you think Nazi's are monsters.
- cf141q5325 3y ago
  Or maybe dehumanizing people is wrong no matter who does it. Just like Fascism. As long as its the same mechanisms at play, this is only a discussion about palpable degrees. Which when judged only by who does it always end on the worse part of the spectrum. I believe its worth pointing out, that both Ukraine and Russia are using conscripts. As in innocent men that get murdered by their government for "reasons". So no, dehumanizing them is not acceptable. The cognitive dissonance necessary to justify this by citing fears of fascism is quite something. It might also be worth pointing out, that this is lesser evil logic. Which if you recall is how we got fascism in Germany, by scaring people enough with the threat of the Bolsheviks. edit: Also, just because OP is trolling doesnt mean that dehumanization is acceptable. Especially if that is the expectable reaction.

Dehumanising is Dehumanising, nothing to do with my skin, I'm not Russian or Ukrainian.

by Guthur 3y ago

Dehumanising is Dehumanising, nothing to do with my skin, I'm not Russian or Ukrainian.

> Dehumanising is Dehumanising, nothing to do with my skin, I'm not Russian or Ukrainian. Regardless of what your background is saying someone making light of fascists invaders is dehumanising requires you to have a super thin skin. If they didn’t want to be called orcs maybe they should stop acting like them.

Guthur 3y ago
You really believe that's how it works? that russians can just choose not to be involved. Like the east Ukrainians can just choose to be autonomous?
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  > You really believe that's how it works? that russians can just choose not to be involved. Yes. The Russians chose to invade, they choose to continue to occupy Ukraine and they choose to both commit terrible war crimes and act like idiots. > Like the east Ukrainians can just choose to be autonomous? This is a false equivalency. Do you think it was wrong to call the Nazis monsters?, a Orc is merely a monster, calling someone a Orc is no less dehumanising than saying someones particularly heinous actions were monstrous. What do you think of the Russian talking points that dehumanise the entire country of Ukraine and talks about them in a way that pretty much precludes that they are fake people and should be genocide'd if need be?.
  - Guthur 3y ago
    How is it false equivalency, you seem to think that individuals can choose whatever they individually believe is right i.e. an individual in Russia can some how chose not to be involved in the ongoing conflict. And so if that is true it must be just as simple for someone within Ukraine to chose a different path and not be part of the country we call Ukraine. Orc is non-human, it is dehumanizing. And I'm not sure we both agree what the Nazi ideology is. For me Nazi is someone who follows a race based ideology that aims to dehumanize or otherwise segegrate elements of humanity as being of a lower category. Fake country and fake human is a false equivalency. Humans are living conscious beings of a category that we all belong to. Countries are a further category we've invented for...reasons. I've not seen evidence that the people in the area we call Russia have claimed that the humans in the area we call Ukraine are some how non-humans. But in contrast none of us are here denying that Ukriane openly refers to Russians as a non-human category.
    - _kbh_ 3y ago
      > How is it false equivalency, you seem to think that individuals can choose whatever they individually believe is right i.e. an individual in Russia can some how chose not to be involved in the ongoing conflict. Yes there is an always free will, regardless of the consequences. "I was just following orders" as an excuse for doing terrible things didn't fly with the Nazis and it shouldn't fly now. > Orc is non-human, it is dehumanizing. And I'm not sure we both agree what the Nazi ideology is. For me Nazi is someone who follows a race based ideology that aims to dehumanize or otherwise segegrate elements of humanity as being of a lower category. Monsters are non-human, it is dehumanising. Calling Nazi's monsters is dehumanising right?. > I've not seen evidence that the people in the area we call Russia have claimed that the humans in the area we call Ukraine are some how non-humans. But in contrast none of us are here denying that Ukriane openly refers to Russians as a non-human category. It has happened plenty, from government officials. https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-soldiers-monsters-secret-experiments-biolabs-us-1725908 https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-soldiers-monsters-se... > Russian officials claimed on Monday that Ukrainian soldiers have been turned into "monsters" in "secret experiments" in biological laboratories in Ukraine funded by the United States government. You didn't look very hard did you?. You also never answered the question if you think Nazi's are monsters.
cf141q5325 3y ago
Or maybe dehumanizing people is wrong no matter who does it. Just like Fascism. As long as its the same mechanisms at play, this is only a discussion about palpable degrees. Which when judged only by who does it always end on the worse part of the spectrum. I believe its worth pointing out, that both Ukraine and Russia are using conscripts. As in innocent men that get murdered by their government for "reasons". So no, dehumanizing them is not acceptable. The cognitive dissonance necessary to justify this by citing fears of fascism is quite something. It might also be worth pointing out, that this is lesser evil logic. Which if you recall is how we got fascism in Germany, by scaring people enough with the threat of the Bolsheviks. edit: Also, just because OP is trolling doesnt mean that dehumanization is acceptable. Especially if that is the expectable reaction.