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I don't see any evidence Musk understands what made Twitter great, either. At this point, someone just needs to stand up a Twitter clone that can handle the tr

I don't see any evidence Musk understands what made Twitter great, either. At this point, someone just needs to stand up a Twitter clone that can handle the traffic because I think most regular Twitter users are having a much worse experience on there now -- from my own anecdotal experience as a semi-heavy twitter user.

afavour 3y ago
> I don't see any evidence Musk understands what made Twitter great, either. Oh, I totally agree. I just don't think that means Meta will win here.
- comte7092 3y ago
  Meta is an exceptional copier. They might not be coming up with many novel features but they are great at stealing from their competitors.
  - afavour 3y ago
    Are they? https://techcrunch.com/2012/12/21/facebook-poke-app/ https://techcrunch.com/2012/12/21/facebook-poke-app/
    - wilg 3y ago
      Yes
    - comte7092 3y ago
      Ah yes because stories wasn’t a massive success.
      - afavour 3y ago
        Stories was a massive success because they pivoted their massively successful app Instagram around it. They’re never going to do that with a Twitter clone, the stakes aren’t high enough. It remains to be seen if they can actually launch a copy of another app without subsuming an existing one to do so.
        threeseed 3y ago
        Facebook Workplace is an example of a completely new product. And it has actually been a quiet but lucrative success for the company.
  - joegahona 3y ago
    Looks like they already tried this once: https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/17/instagram-will-shut-down-its-companion-app-threads-by-year-end/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/17/instagram-will-shut-down-i...
    - comte7092 3y ago
      Fair, but their main competitor wasn’t doing everything it could to implode at the time either.
      - joegahona 3y ago
        I was just sharing what I thought was a useful link, not editorializing (though I can see where it looks like I was). Amazing how that came and went and — I’m guessing — many people (even in a niche place like HN) probably don’t remember.
    - drusepth 3y ago
      For anyone confused by the same name on separate apps, this is the description of the previous Instagram Threads app: > Threads was introduced in 2019 as a companion app to Instagram shortly after the company shut down its other standalone messaging app, Direct. Instead of focusing solely on the inbox experience, Threads was built as a “camera-first” mobile messager designed to be used for posting status updates and staying in touch with those you designated as your “Close Friends” on Instagram.
      - codethief 3y ago
        Ahh, I knew I knew I had seen that name before! So they've indeed pulled a Google Meet[0]. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Meet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Meet
  - cjohnson318 3y ago
    All they need to do is copy Twitter from like ten years ago, and they already have a killer product that's an order of magnitude better than what Twitter is now.
    - akho 3y ago
      At this point, they would likely prefer a profitable product.
      - dragontamer 3y ago
        Profitable? Like what? Metaverse? Meta is the kind of company to throw $25+ Billion into a vanity project and not really sweat it.
    - inDigiNeous 3y ago
      All this talk about demise of twitter, and why ? For me at least personally, the experience is better. No more cult of personalities with "verified" badges and wondering who gets it and who does not. No more censorship of certain people and shadow banning, which is one of the main issues Elon even bought Twitter I think, was to create a censorship free platform for discussion. The feeds are better, I see less stupid likes like I did for example 1 year ago, when my feed would be full of likes from people I dont care about. Also, there is the feature of community leaving feedback on the tweet, which can show immediately that okay, this tweet is just wrong. 10 years ago was a different time socially and politically, you cannot go back to that. Also ten years ago twitter had probably much less bots and users also.
      - dragontamer 3y ago
        You mean like how Elon Musk has shadowbanned pro-Ukrainian talk, such as Kyiv Independent? All pro-Ukrainian sources do not trickle up the timelines anymore. Twitter also puts Ukrainians soldiers petting-puppies and/or showing off their cats behind the age-restriction filters. -------- Before, Twitter had a committee and moderators who you could talk to about these shadowbans and other such moderation decisions. Today, all those have been fired, and strangely pro-Russians are being boosted... while pro-Ukrainians are being shadowbanned.
  - spaceman_2020 3y ago
    The only thing they’re truly good at is copying features and using regulatory capture to outmuscle the competition. Meta would have been absolutely toast right now if TikTok wasn’t banned in India. All of their user growth has come from that market lately, and that could only happen because Indian users have no option but to use Reels (TikTok was killing it here). And the TikTok ban was also very suspiciously timed - right after Meta made massive billion dollar investments in India’s most powerful and politically connected business (Reliance/Jio). There have been no subsequent bans on anything Chinese.
    - nindalf 3y ago
      > Regulatory capture You say this and in the next breath mention India banning TikTok, which indicates that you don’t know what you’re talking about. India banned TikTok and 57 other Chinese apps in June 2020 in response to clashes between the PLA and the Indian Army in the Himalayas. How are you going to explain that? That Zuck picked up the phone and encouraged Xi to attack Ladakh so that Modi would ban TikTok? Be real. It is definitely true that Meta has tangentially benefited from this, but let’s not pretend that Meta was the driving force behind this.
      - spaceman_2020 3y ago
        Of course not. That was just coincidental timing, and a popular move politically at that time. Because if Chinese apps were so dangerous, why haven't other Chinese apps been banned since, or why have Chinese smartphones continued to prolifer in the Indian market since? India's trade with China has only increased since then. Yet somehow, TikTok was the first casualty - and nothing since.
        nindalf 3y ago
        It was an Indian response to a Chinese provocation. But you’re not very familiar with Indian matters if you think there have been no further Indian responses. Banning apps is one thing. Military exercises with America, Japan and Australia is another. A state visit by the Indian PM to America where defence deals were struck is yet another. All of these responses hurt China’s interests. It’s quite simplistic to think that app banning is the only thing a country can do. Also, you might not understand this but it’s easy to replace Chinese apps, so it only hurts the Chinese companies and not Indian consumers. It’s harder to replace physical goods overnight because that would increase prices and decrease choice for Indian consumers. That’s why it hasn’t happened.
  - numpad0 3y ago
    They may be good at copying features, but they then destroy the gains by trying to push real name policy. The only difference between Fb, Ig, Oculus, Threads, and its counterparts is traceability to cardface information printed on your driver's license, and that alone is forcing them into positions they are in.
  - lodovic 3y ago
    But making a copy is never enough. Users are only willing to migrate to a new platform for lower price, superior features, or when the original platform screws up big time. Otherwise it's just more of the same, and now instead of sending a tweet, you now would have to use multiple platforms to reach the same audience which probably already uses Twitter anyway. If they really want people to move from Twitter like from Digg to Reddit or MySpace to Facebook they need a unique selling point. Having to use my real identity for a Twitter clone isn't one.
thrashh 3y ago
I’m not a fan of Musk but Musk isn’t trying to make Twitter better… He’s trying to make Twitter able to pay its own bills. Twitter has never made money (except once) in its 17 years of existence. Twitter as it was should not exist. It’s like a bakery that sells loaves for bread for 20c at a loss. It’s going to eventually implode unless something changes.
- discardable_dan 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - nwiswell 3y ago
    I see a lot of conspiracy theories like this one but zero explanation of motive. WHY would Musk act as a stooge for the Saudis in this way, at a cost of $44 billion? He's the richest man in the world, he doesn't have to do errands for anyone. "Parag hurt his feelings, so he impulsively and vengefully made a buyout offer. He almost immediately came to his senses, and unsuccessfully tried for months to wiggle out of the deal" fits the fact pattern. Once he realized he actually had to try and run the thing, he failed. It's a lot simpler than the Saudi thing.
    - post-it 3y ago
      He's the richest man in the world partially because he's desperate for money. Being bottomlessly greedy is a necessary prerequisite to being a multibillionaire, any normal person would retire before they get there. And although he's one of the wealthiest people in the world, his wealth is dwarfed by that of the Saudi state.
      - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
        How is Saudi Arabia paying him without anyone noticing?
        rvba 3y ago
abledon 3y ago
> I don't see any evidence Musk understands what made Twitter great, either. First mover advantage and already existing userbase. Its the Windows of Operating Systems. Market domination.
- dragontamer 3y ago
  Yahoo Search, MySpace Social Network, and Digg for link aggregation, amirite? Blackberry smartphones, PalmOS to organize our contacts, Sony Walkmen to listen to music, Symbian Apps, Java ME phone applications. Flash internet content, Juno Email. UltraSPARC systems running SPARC probably won't be beaten by a scrappy open source startup...
- rchaud 3y ago
  How can Twitter be a Windows of anything? It is a tenth of Facebook's size, it's unprofitable and it can't bend any tech partners to its will, as shown by the Google Cloud situation.
  - afavour 3y ago
    I think in the OPs example Twitter is the Windows of being Twitter. If you want to use a Twitter like social network, Twitter is still king. Facebook is massive but it will still need to capture mindshare to unseat Twitter.
Nursie 3y ago
> At this point, someone just needs to stand up a Twitter clone that can handle the traffic ... Isn't that exactly what meta are doing here?
ericmay 3y ago
It won’t work just like that because those who you want to follow on Twitter have a big following and are invested in the current platform. You’ve got to get big accounts to switch. This Instagram approach may work.

afavour 3y ago

> I don't see any evidence Musk understands what made Twitter great, either. Oh, I totally agree. I just don't think that means Meta will win here.

comte7092 3y ago
Meta is an exceptional copier. They might not be coming up with many novel features but they are great at stealing from their competitors.
- afavour 3y ago
  Are they? https://techcrunch.com/2012/12/21/facebook-poke-app/ https://techcrunch.com/2012/12/21/facebook-poke-app/
  - wilg 3y ago
    Yes
  - comte7092 3y ago
    Ah yes because stories wasn’t a massive success.
    - afavour 3y ago
      Stories was a massive success because they pivoted their massively successful app Instagram around it. They’re never going to do that with a Twitter clone, the stakes aren’t high enough. It remains to be seen if they can actually launch a copy of another app without subsuming an existing one to do so.
      - threeseed 3y ago
        Facebook Workplace is an example of a completely new product. And it has actually been a quiet but lucrative success for the company.
- joegahona 3y ago
  Looks like they already tried this once: https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/17/instagram-will-shut-down-its-companion-app-threads-by-year-end/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/17/instagram-will-shut-down-i...
  - comte7092 3y ago
    Fair, but their main competitor wasn’t doing everything it could to implode at the time either.
    - joegahona 3y ago
      I was just sharing what I thought was a useful link, not editorializing (though I can see where it looks like I was). Amazing how that came and went and — I’m guessing — many people (even in a niche place like HN) probably don’t remember.
  - drusepth 3y ago
    For anyone confused by the same name on separate apps, this is the description of the previous Instagram Threads app: > Threads was introduced in 2019 as a companion app to Instagram shortly after the company shut down its other standalone messaging app, Direct. Instead of focusing solely on the inbox experience, Threads was built as a “camera-first” mobile messager designed to be used for posting status updates and staying in touch with those you designated as your “Close Friends” on Instagram.
    - codethief 3y ago
      Ahh, I knew I knew I had seen that name before! So they've indeed pulled a Google Meet[0]. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Meet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Meet
- cjohnson318 3y ago
  All they need to do is copy Twitter from like ten years ago, and they already have a killer product that's an order of magnitude better than what Twitter is now.
  - akho 3y ago
    At this point, they would likely prefer a profitable product.
    - dragontamer 3y ago
      Profitable? Like what? Metaverse? Meta is the kind of company to throw $25+ Billion into a vanity project and not really sweat it.
  - inDigiNeous 3y ago
    All this talk about demise of twitter, and why ? For me at least personally, the experience is better. No more cult of personalities with "verified" badges and wondering who gets it and who does not. No more censorship of certain people and shadow banning, which is one of the main issues Elon even bought Twitter I think, was to create a censorship free platform for discussion. The feeds are better, I see less stupid likes like I did for example 1 year ago, when my feed would be full of likes from people I dont care about. Also, there is the feature of community leaving feedback on the tweet, which can show immediately that okay, this tweet is just wrong. 10 years ago was a different time socially and politically, you cannot go back to that. Also ten years ago twitter had probably much less bots and users also.
    - dragontamer 3y ago
      You mean like how Elon Musk has shadowbanned pro-Ukrainian talk, such as Kyiv Independent? All pro-Ukrainian sources do not trickle up the timelines anymore. Twitter also puts Ukrainians soldiers petting-puppies and/or showing off their cats behind the age-restriction filters. -------- Before, Twitter had a committee and moderators who you could talk to about these shadowbans and other such moderation decisions. Today, all those have been fired, and strangely pro-Russians are being boosted... while pro-Ukrainians are being shadowbanned.
- spaceman_2020 3y ago
  The only thing they’re truly good at is copying features and using regulatory capture to outmuscle the competition. Meta would have been absolutely toast right now if TikTok wasn’t banned in India. All of their user growth has come from that market lately, and that could only happen because Indian users have no option but to use Reels (TikTok was killing it here). And the TikTok ban was also very suspiciously timed - right after Meta made massive billion dollar investments in India’s most powerful and politically connected business (Reliance/Jio). There have been no subsequent bans on anything Chinese.
  - nindalf 3y ago
    > Regulatory capture You say this and in the next breath mention India banning TikTok, which indicates that you don’t know what you’re talking about. India banned TikTok and 57 other Chinese apps in June 2020 in response to clashes between the PLA and the Indian Army in the Himalayas. How are you going to explain that? That Zuck picked up the phone and encouraged Xi to attack Ladakh so that Modi would ban TikTok? Be real. It is definitely true that Meta has tangentially benefited from this, but let’s not pretend that Meta was the driving force behind this.
    - spaceman_2020 3y ago
      Of course not. That was just coincidental timing, and a popular move politically at that time. Because if Chinese apps were so dangerous, why haven't other Chinese apps been banned since, or why have Chinese smartphones continued to prolifer in the Indian market since? India's trade with China has only increased since then. Yet somehow, TikTok was the first casualty - and nothing since.
      - nindalf 3y ago
        It was an Indian response to a Chinese provocation. But you’re not very familiar with Indian matters if you think there have been no further Indian responses. Banning apps is one thing. Military exercises with America, Japan and Australia is another. A state visit by the Indian PM to America where defence deals were struck is yet another. All of these responses hurt China’s interests. It’s quite simplistic to think that app banning is the only thing a country can do. Also, you might not understand this but it’s easy to replace Chinese apps, so it only hurts the Chinese companies and not Indian consumers. It’s harder to replace physical goods overnight because that would increase prices and decrease choice for Indian consumers. That’s why it hasn’t happened.
- numpad0 3y ago
  They may be good at copying features, but they then destroy the gains by trying to push real name policy. The only difference between Fb, Ig, Oculus, Threads, and its counterparts is traceability to cardface information printed on your driver's license, and that alone is forcing them into positions they are in.
- lodovic 3y ago
  But making a copy is never enough. Users are only willing to migrate to a new platform for lower price, superior features, or when the original platform screws up big time. Otherwise it's just more of the same, and now instead of sending a tweet, you now would have to use multiple platforms to reach the same audience which probably already uses Twitter anyway. If they really want people to move from Twitter like from Digg to Reddit or MySpace to Facebook they need a unique selling point. Having to use my real identity for a Twitter clone isn't one.

thrashh 3y ago

I’m not a fan of Musk but Musk isn’t trying to make Twitter better… He’s trying to make Twitter able to pay its own bills. Twitter has never made money (except once) in its 17 years of existence. Twitter as it was should not exist. It’s like a bakery that sells loaves for bread for 20c at a loss. It’s going to eventually implode unless something changes.

discardable_dan 3y ago
[flagged]
- nwiswell 3y ago
  I see a lot of conspiracy theories like this one but zero explanation of motive. WHY would Musk act as a stooge for the Saudis in this way, at a cost of $44 billion? He's the richest man in the world, he doesn't have to do errands for anyone. "Parag hurt his feelings, so he impulsively and vengefully made a buyout offer. He almost immediately came to his senses, and unsuccessfully tried for months to wiggle out of the deal" fits the fact pattern. Once he realized he actually had to try and run the thing, he failed. It's a lot simpler than the Saudi thing.
  - post-it 3y ago
    He's the richest man in the world partially because he's desperate for money. Being bottomlessly greedy is a necessary prerequisite to being a multibillionaire, any normal person would retire before they get there. And although he's one of the wealthiest people in the world, his wealth is dwarfed by that of the Saudi state.
    - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
      How is Saudi Arabia paying him without anyone noticing?
      - rvba 3y ago

abledon 3y ago

> I don't see any evidence Musk understands what made Twitter great, either. First mover advantage and already existing userbase. Its the Windows of Operating Systems. Market domination.

dragontamer 3y ago
Yahoo Search, MySpace Social Network, and Digg for link aggregation, amirite? Blackberry smartphones, PalmOS to organize our contacts, Sony Walkmen to listen to music, Symbian Apps, Java ME phone applications. Flash internet content, Juno Email. UltraSPARC systems running SPARC probably won't be beaten by a scrappy open source startup...
rchaud 3y ago
How can Twitter be a Windows of anything? It is a tenth of Facebook's size, it's unprofitable and it can't bend any tech partners to its will, as shown by the Google Cloud situation.
- afavour 3y ago
  I think in the OPs example Twitter is the Windows of being Twitter. If you want to use a Twitter like social network, Twitter is still king. Facebook is massive but it will still need to capture mindshare to unseat Twitter.

Nursie 3y ago

> At this point, someone just needs to stand up a Twitter clone that can handle the traffic ... Isn't that exactly what meta are doing here?

ericmay 3y ago

It won’t work just like that because those who you want to follow on Twitter have a big following and are invested in the current platform. You’ve got to get big accounts to switch. This Instagram approach may work.