3 ms·

yeah you’ve got it. i’m based in London. i am fairly confident that our style can come across as arrogant. i don’t always ageee with it, though i can see its ad

by halhod 3y ago

yeah you’ve got it. i’m based in London. i am fairly confident that our style can come across as arrogant. i don’t always ageee with it, though i can see its advantages. you’ll see i put a bunch of my sources below for you to check out if you like

remarkEon 3y ago
I wouldn't say arrogant, really. The Economist definitely has an audience, which is in my view an educated urban professional who works in financial service, or maybe tech or tech-adjacent, or something on the periphery of government. So the tone is spot on, in my estimation. I'm probably just a cynical American and am too used to my news media intentionally lying to me, so don't take it personal if my question and/or explanation came off as rude. I did check out the links, thanks for providing them.
- halhod 3y ago
  no worries at all, did not take it as such. and yeah, i guess i think just cos something has worked well for us for a long time, doesn’t mean it’s not worth thinking about how well it works today
soco 3y ago
Just chiming in, I think while your approach may have worked fine in the past, in today's world of half-truths and believable lies it's more important than ever to at least add your sources below like you did now. Because a reputation once lost, even if only by somebody misinterpreting an article, can be a struggle to regain.
- halhod 3y ago
  I think about this a lot, and I think you may be right, but I am also not sure anyone ever had their mind changed by having sources cited. My main thought is that in an age of cheap machine generated text, we may need to be more transparent about the sourcing we offer, even at cost of style
  - OrderlyTiamat 3y ago
    I think the style could be preserved if the sourcing is done in the style you did here: an aside by the author separate from the main article. It doesn't have to be paper style in the middle of the article, but it's good if it's present on the page (perhaps behind a button labeled "source disclosure" or similar) I also think this increases the value I get from pieces like this, in more ways than whether or not my mind was changed. Sourcing might not influence mind changing in particular, but it'll help me if I want to dive deeper in the topic. Just yesterday I had trouble figuring out which paper was referred to by an economist piece by using google scholar queries- if there was a sources section, I'd have known instantly.
    - halhod 3y ago
      yes, good point. I am sure this has been discussed internally and not adopted to date for a good reason, but I will think on it more
    - soco 3y ago
      I also don't see that sourcing as changing the minds of the untrusting, but as avoiding to lose the existing trust.
  - remarkEon 3y ago
    Does The Economist still have a statistics page at the back of the print magazine? It's been a while since I picked up the physical edition, but suppose we had a digital version of the magazine and you could footnote primary sources like you did in this thread and stash them at the end, after the stats summary.
    - halhod 3y ago
      it has one page of indicators in the back, yes. it would defo be too many sources to fit in print, but clearly digital makes this possible as a little clickable footnote at the bottom or similar. part of the issue is that one can't help but feel that you are competing with "attention apps", and so there's this deep incentive not to link out. my own view is that you can't succumb to this, and have to trust the reader with their own attention, but it is hard, still to push readers out of the site/app in any way

by halhod 3y ago

remarkEon 3y ago

I wouldn't say arrogant, really. The Economist definitely has an audience, which is in my view an educated urban professional who works in financial service, or maybe tech or tech-adjacent, or something on the periphery of government. So the tone is spot on, in my estimation. I'm probably just a cynical American and am too used to my news media intentionally lying to me, so don't take it personal if my question and/or explanation came off as rude. I did check out the links, thanks for providing them.

halhod 3y ago
no worries at all, did not take it as such. and yeah, i guess i think just cos something has worked well for us for a long time, doesn’t mean it’s not worth thinking about how well it works today

soco 3y ago

Just chiming in, I think while your approach may have worked fine in the past, in today's world of half-truths and believable lies it's more important than ever to at least add your sources below like you did now. Because a reputation once lost, even if only by somebody misinterpreting an article, can be a struggle to regain.

halhod 3y ago
I think about this a lot, and I think you may be right, but I am also not sure anyone ever had their mind changed by having sources cited. My main thought is that in an age of cheap machine generated text, we may need to be more transparent about the sourcing we offer, even at cost of style
- OrderlyTiamat 3y ago
  I think the style could be preserved if the sourcing is done in the style you did here: an aside by the author separate from the main article. It doesn't have to be paper style in the middle of the article, but it's good if it's present on the page (perhaps behind a button labeled "source disclosure" or similar) I also think this increases the value I get from pieces like this, in more ways than whether or not my mind was changed. Sourcing might not influence mind changing in particular, but it'll help me if I want to dive deeper in the topic. Just yesterday I had trouble figuring out which paper was referred to by an economist piece by using google scholar queries- if there was a sources section, I'd have known instantly.
  - halhod 3y ago
    yes, good point. I am sure this has been discussed internally and not adopted to date for a good reason, but I will think on it more
  - soco 3y ago
    I also don't see that sourcing as changing the minds of the untrusting, but as avoiding to lose the existing trust.
- remarkEon 3y ago
  Does The Economist still have a statistics page at the back of the print magazine? It's been a while since I picked up the physical edition, but suppose we had a digital version of the magazine and you could footnote primary sources like you did in this thread and stash them at the end, after the stats summary.
  - halhod 3y ago
    it has one page of indicators in the back, yes. it would defo be too many sources to fit in print, but clearly digital makes this possible as a little clickable footnote at the bottom or similar. part of the issue is that one can't help but feel that you are competing with "attention apps", and so there's this deep incentive not to link out. my own view is that you can't succumb to this, and have to trust the reader with their own attention, but it is hard, still to push readers out of the site/app in any way