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The case in point highlights that this is not a problem specific to online media, it's just made it more obvious. There is nothing different between how NSDAP

by Guthur 3y ago

The case in point highlights that this is not a problem specific to online media, it's just made it more obvious. There is nothing different between how NSDAP whipped up a nation to go on a 6 year rampage across Europe than what's happening now. I've witnessed otherwise reasonable people justify the description of Russians as Orcs as a reasonable dehumanising racial slur in light of the Ukraine Russo conflict. I like Iain McGilchrist thesis that we seemed that have become overly left brain dominated and so are starting to exhibit an increasing inability to process nuance.

_kbh_ 3y ago
> There is nothing different between how NSDAP whipped up a nation to go on a 6 year rampage across Europe than what's happening now. I've witnessed otherwise reasonable people justify the description of Russians as Orcs as a reasonable dehumanising racial slur in light of the Ukraine Russo conflict. You must have the thinnest skin to imaginable to actually think this. And the irony of this palatable considering how the Russians are acting similar to actual Nazis and mirroring some of their rhetoric. Insulting a fascists invading force committing some of worst crimes imaginable is not the same as what the Nazis did.
- Guthur 3y ago
  Dehumanising is Dehumanising, nothing to do with my skin, I'm not Russian or Ukrainian.
  - _kbh_ 3y ago
    > Dehumanising is Dehumanising, nothing to do with my skin, I'm not Russian or Ukrainian. Regardless of what your background is saying someone making light of fascists invaders is dehumanising requires you to have a super thin skin. If they didn’t want to be called orcs maybe they should stop acting like them.
    - Guthur 3y ago
      You really believe that's how it works? that russians can just choose not to be involved. Like the east Ukrainians can just choose to be autonomous?
      - _kbh_ 3y ago
        > You really believe that's how it works? that russians can just choose not to be involved. Yes. The Russians chose to invade, they choose to continue to occupy Ukraine and they choose to both commit terrible war crimes and act like idiots. > Like the east Ukrainians can just choose to be autonomous? This is a false equivalency. Do you think it was wrong to call the Nazis monsters?, a Orc is merely a monster, calling someone a Orc is no less dehumanising than saying someones particularly heinous actions were monstrous. What do you think of the Russian talking points that dehumanise the entire country of Ukraine and talks about them in a way that pretty much precludes that they are fake people and should be genocide'd if need be?.
        Guthur 3y ago
        How is it false equivalency, you seem to think that individuals can choose whatever they individually believe is right i.e. an individual in Russia can some how chose not to be involved in the ongoing conflict. And so if that is true it must be just as simple for someone within Ukraine to chose a different path and not be part of the country we call Ukraine. Orc is non-human, it is dehumanizing. And I'm not sure we both agree what the Nazi ideology is. For me Nazi is someone who follows a race based ideology that aims to dehumanize or otherwise segegrate elements of humanity as being of a lower category. Fake country and fake human is a false equivalency. Humans are living conscious beings of a category that we all belong to. Countries are a further category we've invented for...reasons. I've not seen evidence that the people in the area we call Russia have claimed that the humans in the area we call Ukraine are some how non-humans. But in contrast none of us are here denying that Ukriane openly refers to Russians as a non-human category.
        _kbh_ 3y ago
lisasays 3y ago
There is nothing different between how NSDAP whipped up a nation to go on a 6 year rampage across Europe than what's happening now. An excellent analogy, as applies to the current Russian state having dragged its population into a senseless, expansionist war against its southern neighbor (and erstwhile "brother" nation). And its skill at turning ordinary citizens into instruments of genocide.
- Guthur 3y ago
  Really, so the russians are referring to Ukrainians as some dehumanising term as orc?
  - _kbh_ 3y ago
    Yes? they refer to them in ways that says there people, culture and history don't even exist. Thats way more dehumanising than referring them as monsters because they continually act like monsters.
    - Guthur 3y ago
      Sorry, they say they don't exist as human beings? that would be the dehumanising equivalent. Nations, culture, history etc are ideas and perceptions that it's clear we don't all agree on.
      - _kbh_ 3y ago
        > Sorry, they say they don't exist as human beings? that would be the dehumanising equivalent. No it wouldn't, no one said the Russians don't exist. > Nations, culture, history etc are ideas and perceptions that it's clear we don't all agree on. Yeah and it's way more dehumanising to say they don't exist then to call someone a monster for being a monster. Do you think the Russian army should be invading Ukraine?.
  - lisasays 3y ago
    The topic is entirely moot. What is "dehumanizing" is the unprovoked war of racist, colonial aggression, enacted by the Russian Federation upon Ukraine - and conducted from the start with a policy of terror, directed at civilians. If you care at all about the subject, that is what you should be focusing on. If a bunch of assholes came into your neighborhood, started raping people and shooting randomly at whoever was walking on the street - you wouldn't have the kindest words for them either.

by Guthur 3y ago

_kbh_ 3y ago

> There is nothing different between how NSDAP whipped up a nation to go on a 6 year rampage across Europe than what's happening now. I've witnessed otherwise reasonable people justify the description of Russians as Orcs as a reasonable dehumanising racial slur in light of the Ukraine Russo conflict. You must have the thinnest skin to imaginable to actually think this. And the irony of this palatable considering how the Russians are acting similar to actual Nazis and mirroring some of their rhetoric. Insulting a fascists invading force committing some of worst crimes imaginable is not the same as what the Nazis did.

Guthur 3y ago
Dehumanising is Dehumanising, nothing to do with my skin, I'm not Russian or Ukrainian.
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  > Dehumanising is Dehumanising, nothing to do with my skin, I'm not Russian or Ukrainian. Regardless of what your background is saying someone making light of fascists invaders is dehumanising requires you to have a super thin skin. If they didn’t want to be called orcs maybe they should stop acting like them.
  - Guthur 3y ago
    You really believe that's how it works? that russians can just choose not to be involved. Like the east Ukrainians can just choose to be autonomous?
    - _kbh_ 3y ago
      > You really believe that's how it works? that russians can just choose not to be involved. Yes. The Russians chose to invade, they choose to continue to occupy Ukraine and they choose to both commit terrible war crimes and act like idiots. > Like the east Ukrainians can just choose to be autonomous? This is a false equivalency. Do you think it was wrong to call the Nazis monsters?, a Orc is merely a monster, calling someone a Orc is no less dehumanising than saying someones particularly heinous actions were monstrous. What do you think of the Russian talking points that dehumanise the entire country of Ukraine and talks about them in a way that pretty much precludes that they are fake people and should be genocide'd if need be?.
      - Guthur 3y ago
        How is it false equivalency, you seem to think that individuals can choose whatever they individually believe is right i.e. an individual in Russia can some how chose not to be involved in the ongoing conflict. And so if that is true it must be just as simple for someone within Ukraine to chose a different path and not be part of the country we call Ukraine. Orc is non-human, it is dehumanizing. And I'm not sure we both agree what the Nazi ideology is. For me Nazi is someone who follows a race based ideology that aims to dehumanize or otherwise segegrate elements of humanity as being of a lower category. Fake country and fake human is a false equivalency. Humans are living conscious beings of a category that we all belong to. Countries are a further category we've invented for...reasons. I've not seen evidence that the people in the area we call Russia have claimed that the humans in the area we call Ukraine are some how non-humans. But in contrast none of us are here denying that Ukriane openly refers to Russians as a non-human category.
        _kbh_ 3y ago

lisasays 3y ago

There is nothing different between how NSDAP whipped up a nation to go on a 6 year rampage across Europe than what's happening now. An excellent analogy, as applies to the current Russian state having dragged its population into a senseless, expansionist war against its southern neighbor (and erstwhile "brother" nation). And its skill at turning ordinary citizens into instruments of genocide.

Guthur 3y ago
Really, so the russians are referring to Ukrainians as some dehumanising term as orc?
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  Yes? they refer to them in ways that says there people, culture and history don't even exist. Thats way more dehumanising than referring them as monsters because they continually act like monsters.
  - Guthur 3y ago
    Sorry, they say they don't exist as human beings? that would be the dehumanising equivalent. Nations, culture, history etc are ideas and perceptions that it's clear we don't all agree on.
    - _kbh_ 3y ago
      > Sorry, they say they don't exist as human beings? that would be the dehumanising equivalent. No it wouldn't, no one said the Russians don't exist. > Nations, culture, history etc are ideas and perceptions that it's clear we don't all agree on. Yeah and it's way more dehumanising to say they don't exist then to call someone a monster for being a monster. Do you think the Russian army should be invading Ukraine?.
- lisasays 3y ago
  The topic is entirely moot. What is "dehumanizing" is the unprovoked war of racist, colonial aggression, enacted by the Russian Federation upon Ukraine - and conducted from the start with a policy of terror, directed at civilians. If you care at all about the subject, that is what you should be focusing on. If a bunch of assholes came into your neighborhood, started raping people and shooting randomly at whoever was walking on the street - you wouldn't have the kindest words for them either.