6 ms·

I wouldn't be surprised to see this activity ramp up drastically over the next few years. Anti American sentiment has been growing and their state media has bee

by genmud 3y ago

I wouldn't be surprised to see this activity ramp up drastically over the next few years. Anti American sentiment has been growing and their state media has been really pushing it as well due to the semiconductor and trade embargos for certain technology. Ironically this might be the straw that breaks the camels back, when you lock up people on business trips, the companies tend to not look on that very favorably.

xerxesaa 3y ago
Genuine question: did anyone actually get locked up on a business trip to China?
- genmud 3y ago
  Yes, there are many examples if you simply google "china imprisoned business trip". When the Canadian government arrested a Huawei exec who was ignoring Iranian sanctions and lying to US investigators, the Chinese government arrested 2 Canadians as spies. Authoritarian governments fucking love to arrest people on "espionage" charges, since it is hard to prove and they can pretend to not be able to share because of national security.
  - aerio 3y ago
    You forgot to mention how valuable they are as bargaining chips for mutual releases of prisoners. Case in point, the American basketball player Brittney Griner was arrested in Russia on accusations of having a cannabis vape pen - and was exchanged for the world's most notorious arms dealer, Victor Bout. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/08/brittney-griner-russia-us-prisoner-swap-viktor-bout https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/08/brittney-grine...
    - genmud 3y ago
      Thats kind of what I was getting at with the Canadians, but Griner is a good example too.
  - dirtyid 3y ago
    No there aren't. There's like ~150 cases of exit bans of "foreigners" in PRC in the last 20 years. Vast majority of exit bans are ex Chinese (primarily financial) criminals who thought western passport would protect them only to be coerced back into PRC to face justice. Or established expats who gets dragged into legal issues, especially with local interests. Some of which might be sus. Just about the only westerners rounded up and severely punished in PRC during travel are drug smugglers. Statistically, a westerner (not ex Chinese national) has less chance of being thoroughly fucked with in PRC than an ethnically Chinese scientist in the US via China Initiative. On the two Michaels', of course they were spies, with the customary NGO cover. Useful idiots who lap up western propaganda love to think PRC... a surveillance state with extremely competent state security organ that completely dismantled CIA spy network this decade somehow needs to capture innocent westerners when they could just snatch up legitimate spies. There's a reason CSIS, Canadian CIA, publically celebrated their release on twitter [0]. Not to mention this tidbit: >Edith Terry: Michael Kovrig is a friend, and I am very conscious of the privations he has endured. And while his background is complex and possibly included intelligence gathering for the Canadian government during his diplomatic career, he was very open about his research interests and contacts. [1] The other Michael ran NKorean pertaining NGO out of PRC. Connect the dots. [0] https://twitter.com/csiscanada/status/1441571942721593345 https://twitter.com/csiscanada/status/1441571942721593345 [1] https://www.chinafile.com/conversation/will-i-return-china https://www.chinafile.com/conversation/will-i-return-china Like it's not hard to stay out of severe trouble in PRC as a foreigner. Don't traffic drugs, don't spy i.e. don't take pictures of military. Almost all the other small shit you get to drink tea with cops and sign some paperwork which is basically kid glove treament. The only real exception is journalism, hence most foreign media has left the country.
    - genmud 3y ago
      > Statistically, a westerner (not ex Chinese national) has less chance of being thoroughly fucked with in PRC than an ethnically Chinese scientist in the US via China Initiative. That has not been what I have observed with people I am friends with, nor the experience of other people I have worked with who go to China regularly. You call them useful idiots, but then call them spies. Which are they? Unknowingly assisting intelligence agencies or illegal spies? Where is the evidence, the PRC refused to provide any... and I'm sorry, but CSIS celebrating the release of a Canadian citizen isn't evidence they are a spy. Look at their feed, it's full of Canada related stuff all the time.

by genmud 3y ago

xerxesaa 3y ago

Genuine question: did anyone actually get locked up on a business trip to China?

genmud 3y ago
Yes, there are many examples if you simply google "china imprisoned business trip". When the Canadian government arrested a Huawei exec who was ignoring Iranian sanctions and lying to US investigators, the Chinese government arrested 2 Canadians as spies. Authoritarian governments fucking love to arrest people on "espionage" charges, since it is hard to prove and they can pretend to not be able to share because of national security.
- aerio 3y ago
  You forgot to mention how valuable they are as bargaining chips for mutual releases of prisoners. Case in point, the American basketball player Brittney Griner was arrested in Russia on accusations of having a cannabis vape pen - and was exchanged for the world's most notorious arms dealer, Victor Bout. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/08/brittney-griner-russia-us-prisoner-swap-viktor-bout https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/08/brittney-grine...
  - genmud 3y ago
    Thats kind of what I was getting at with the Canadians, but Griner is a good example too.
- dirtyid 3y ago
  No there aren't. There's like ~150 cases of exit bans of "foreigners" in PRC in the last 20 years. Vast majority of exit bans are ex Chinese (primarily financial) criminals who thought western passport would protect them only to be coerced back into PRC to face justice. Or established expats who gets dragged into legal issues, especially with local interests. Some of which might be sus. Just about the only westerners rounded up and severely punished in PRC during travel are drug smugglers. Statistically, a westerner (not ex Chinese national) has less chance of being thoroughly fucked with in PRC than an ethnically Chinese scientist in the US via China Initiative. On the two Michaels', of course they were spies, with the customary NGO cover. Useful idiots who lap up western propaganda love to think PRC... a surveillance state with extremely competent state security organ that completely dismantled CIA spy network this decade somehow needs to capture innocent westerners when they could just snatch up legitimate spies. There's a reason CSIS, Canadian CIA, publically celebrated their release on twitter [0]. Not to mention this tidbit: >Edith Terry: Michael Kovrig is a friend, and I am very conscious of the privations he has endured. And while his background is complex and possibly included intelligence gathering for the Canadian government during his diplomatic career, he was very open about his research interests and contacts. [1] The other Michael ran NKorean pertaining NGO out of PRC. Connect the dots. [0] https://twitter.com/csiscanada/status/1441571942721593345 https://twitter.com/csiscanada/status/1441571942721593345 [1] https://www.chinafile.com/conversation/will-i-return-china https://www.chinafile.com/conversation/will-i-return-china Like it's not hard to stay out of severe trouble in PRC as a foreigner. Don't traffic drugs, don't spy i.e. don't take pictures of military. Almost all the other small shit you get to drink tea with cops and sign some paperwork which is basically kid glove treament. The only real exception is journalism, hence most foreign media has left the country.
  - genmud 3y ago
    > Statistically, a westerner (not ex Chinese national) has less chance of being thoroughly fucked with in PRC than an ethnically Chinese scientist in the US via China Initiative. That has not been what I have observed with people I am friends with, nor the experience of other people I have worked with who go to China regularly. You call them useful idiots, but then call them spies. Which are they? Unknowingly assisting intelligence agencies or illegal spies? Where is the evidence, the PRC refused to provide any... and I'm sorry, but CSIS celebrating the release of a Canadian citizen isn't evidence they are a spy. Look at their feed, it's full of Canada related stuff all the time.