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> He also simultaneously cites the Arab world as an example of an alcohol-free society, yet makes no mention of the relatively low productivity rates there. Ev

> He also simultaneously cites the Arab world as an example of an alcohol-free society, yet makes no mention of the relatively low productivity rates there. Even more ridiculous is that last I've heard, there is still alcohol being consumed in muslim countries. I am firmly opposed to prohibition. As many have pointed out, it just doesn't work. Regulation and taxation, sure. And definitely anyone who is considering quitting should be encouraged and supported. No matter what else, support systems for those addicted (and victims of abusers) should be in place. But prohibition did not, and will not, work.

erenyeager 3y ago
Alcohol abuse is one of the causes of major health problems in countries where alcohol is widely consumed. Look at a map of cirrhosis rates, there’s a huge lack of cases in places where alcohol is prohibited. By supporting the current drinking culture in the US , you are indirectly supporting the terrible health results like cirrhosis. The best way to stop is to never start. Prohibition does work, the important part is effecting a cultural shift in attitude towards alcohol, similar to how smoking was marginalized. We don’t need to live with this crazy culture where drinking is glorified and a big social phenomenon.
- npsimons 3y ago
  > Prohibition does work It didn't. We tried it. Look, I'm all for reducing consumption. I'm on board with trying to improve public health, or just health of everyone in general. But prohibition does not work. Didn't work for alcohol. Didn't work for marijuana. Didn't work for sex education. So the question to ask is, what does work? And realize that an all or nothing, black and white approach is counterproductive. Educate, inform, regulate. That's the best we can do, and there's a lot of room in the 'regulate' part to make inroads. Perhaps someday we'll get to synthehol, but we're a long way from that today.
  - erenyeager 3y ago
    I’ve already outlined why US prohibition didn’t work. Basically it was not long enough and a major cultural shift did not occur in US drinking culture. A concerted effort and taking advantage of the current rise in sober culture can really help lower rates of alcohol consumption. We saw this so the decline in tobacco usage. It’s not correct to say any prohibition does not work based on US prohibition in the 1920s. Prohibition for anything can reduce its access and use among people. It’s one of our best tools in preventing problems. This is a false belief in American culture that prohibition of substance does not work, it clearly does work in many countries worldwide in terms of lowering health problems due to alcohol abuses. In the case of things like marijuana, sex education, these are cultural failures. In both cases, the culture was trending towards engaging in these. Prohibition must also enter the cultural attitudes to be greatly effective, but even a general prohibition over a long scale has an effect.
    - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
      So you are saying that cultural attitudes overwhelm legal restrictions. If people want to drink or smoke marijuana then legality does not matter very much and just pushes people into criminal activity. So the idea that the only reason legal prohibition failed is that it didn't last long enough is refuted. You want people to drink less, change attitudes, not the law.
- za3faran 3y ago
  I agree that prohibition works when you shift society's look towards it. It is well documented that when intoxicating drinks were prohibited in Islam, everyone poured their stashes down the street basically the moment it was prohibited.
  - alsetmusic 3y ago
    That’s because of religious devotion. The same would not work in most western nations.
- friend_and_foe 3y ago
  I'm perfectly happy with a cultural shift. Drinking is too often glorified, alcohol is sold on lifestyle and image and not on the substance of what it is, the whole marketing side of the industry is very off putting. But you'll note, cigarettes aren't illegal. Propaganda works, changing culture works. Prohibition does not.
davidguetta 3y ago
Yeah along with porn, which despite being prohibited is still mostly watched in these countries :roll-eyes:
za3faran 3y ago
> there is still alcohol being consumed in muslim countries. Just because it is consumed, does not mean that it is generally accepted or expected. It's recognized as a sin, and is frowned upon.

erenyeager 3y ago

Alcohol abuse is one of the causes of major health problems in countries where alcohol is widely consumed. Look at a map of cirrhosis rates, there’s a huge lack of cases in places where alcohol is prohibited. By supporting the current drinking culture in the US , you are indirectly supporting the terrible health results like cirrhosis. The best way to stop is to never start. Prohibition does work, the important part is effecting a cultural shift in attitude towards alcohol, similar to how smoking was marginalized. We don’t need to live with this crazy culture where drinking is glorified and a big social phenomenon.

npsimons 3y ago
> Prohibition does work It didn't. We tried it. Look, I'm all for reducing consumption. I'm on board with trying to improve public health, or just health of everyone in general. But prohibition does not work. Didn't work for alcohol. Didn't work for marijuana. Didn't work for sex education. So the question to ask is, what does work? And realize that an all or nothing, black and white approach is counterproductive. Educate, inform, regulate. That's the best we can do, and there's a lot of room in the 'regulate' part to make inroads. Perhaps someday we'll get to synthehol, but we're a long way from that today.
- erenyeager 3y ago
  I’ve already outlined why US prohibition didn’t work. Basically it was not long enough and a major cultural shift did not occur in US drinking culture. A concerted effort and taking advantage of the current rise in sober culture can really help lower rates of alcohol consumption. We saw this so the decline in tobacco usage. It’s not correct to say any prohibition does not work based on US prohibition in the 1920s. Prohibition for anything can reduce its access and use among people. It’s one of our best tools in preventing problems. This is a false belief in American culture that prohibition of substance does not work, it clearly does work in many countries worldwide in terms of lowering health problems due to alcohol abuses. In the case of things like marijuana, sex education, these are cultural failures. In both cases, the culture was trending towards engaging in these. Prohibition must also enter the cultural attitudes to be greatly effective, but even a general prohibition over a long scale has an effect.
  - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
    So you are saying that cultural attitudes overwhelm legal restrictions. If people want to drink or smoke marijuana then legality does not matter very much and just pushes people into criminal activity. So the idea that the only reason legal prohibition failed is that it didn't last long enough is refuted. You want people to drink less, change attitudes, not the law.
za3faran 3y ago
I agree that prohibition works when you shift society's look towards it. It is well documented that when intoxicating drinks were prohibited in Islam, everyone poured their stashes down the street basically the moment it was prohibited.
- alsetmusic 3y ago
  That’s because of religious devotion. The same would not work in most western nations.
friend_and_foe 3y ago
I'm perfectly happy with a cultural shift. Drinking is too often glorified, alcohol is sold on lifestyle and image and not on the substance of what it is, the whole marketing side of the industry is very off putting. But you'll note, cigarettes aren't illegal. Propaganda works, changing culture works. Prohibition does not.

davidguetta 3y ago

Yeah along with porn, which despite being prohibited is still mostly watched in these countries :roll-eyes:

za3faran 3y ago

> there is still alcohol being consumed in muslim countries. Just because it is consumed, does not mean that it is generally accepted or expected. It's recognized as a sin, and is frowned upon.