4 ms·

I suppose I can google/chatGPT this, but since both are unreliable I'll ask here: Which software?

NegativeK 3y ago
I've dealt with an environment that was using custom software that relied on a library that only SUSE had in their repo. From a tamer perspective (and that's not that bad,) there are definitely vendors who will develop only against a single distro and won't set it up on anything else you've got. It's like the browser wars of decades ago and today.
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  Isnt this just a reason to stick with FOSS? This sounds like you have all the disadvantages of linux and all the disadvantages of vendor lock in. Maybe I've been burned by iTunes DRM and short lived WYSIWYG editors, but since then, my tech stack and software needs to be flexible. Better to use a slightly less user friendly experience than to be locked in as the quality deteriorates.
  - rilindo 3y ago
    Depending on the business or OP's role, they may not have a choice in the sofware they support.
    - hospitalJail 3y ago
      I can relate to that :(
  - NegativeK 3y ago
    You could have the exact same problem with FOSS: a piece of software that the organization relies on that's ancient, crufty, and barely maintained and the org won't invest in the resources to get rid of the technical debt.
  - jrockway 3y ago
    Isn't this just a reason to statically link, and recompile once a decade when the kernel ABI changes?
okanat 3y ago
Cadence for example, the software that the engineers design and run simulations of the latest and greatest ICs with, from HN's favorite RISC Vs to Nvidia's 4090, only runs on SLES and RHEL. ANSYS fluid dynamics simulator is another. All the advanced planes, future engines have been simulated with it. CATIA and NX are advanced and very expensive CAD software (the basic licensing packages for a medium grade company can easily near a million and often exceed). Both runs only on SLES or RHEL. Many large businesses use on-prem SAP deployments which runs only on SLES.
- hedora 3y ago
  “Only runs on”, or “is only supported on”? Debian alien worked the last time I had to install some janky rpm-only commercial software.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    If you're spending five or six figures on a licence, paying Red Hat or SUSE on top is easy, and part of the cost. It makes no sense to try and run it on Debian.
    - hedora 3y ago
      Productivity matters though (especially at 5-6 figures per seat!). If the CAD designer can't get the rest of their job done with a Red Hat box, do you want them carrying two laptops and or using an HDMI switch, or that they spend 30-60 minutes futzing with .so's until the one special snowflake program starts working on their main machine?
  - okanat 3y ago
    At this scale, the difference doesn't matter. "No support" means "only runs on". Those software makes everything we use daily and we depend our literal lives on. No sane management will risk billions of losses, the literal production and accounting of the company or possible loss of human lives on some ideological or aesthetic preferences on the OS. Moreover the licensing agreements usually prevent the licensees from even trying such things. Compared to their licensing fees, RHEL or SLES are a cent to a 100 bill. Technically the programs may or may not work. Those programs are large and even if you have access to the source code, they can be very tricky to understand. Making all of their parts and their extensively used C++ plugin systems work in a foreign distro is probably harder than reverse engineering some hardware. They are not "janky commercial software". People can and do produce cars, planes, UAVs, latest supercomputers and ICs, satellites and even nuclear warheads with them. Linux userspace libraries don't provide stability or featureset guarantees and distros patch them and worsen the compatibility. Enterprise distros guarantee them and take responsibility for that. In addition the commercial software developers and their customers get premium tier support often connecting you to the developers who curated the distro. You cannot expect community to provide any of that, especially after many years of tradition of almost intentional breaking.

I've dealt with an environment that was using custom software that relied on a library that only SUSE had in their repo. From a tamer perspective (and that's not that bad,) there are definitely vendors who will develop only against a single distro and won't set it up on anything else you've got. It's like the browser wars of decades ago and today.

hospitalJail 3y ago
Isnt this just a reason to stick with FOSS? This sounds like you have all the disadvantages of linux and all the disadvantages of vendor lock in. Maybe I've been burned by iTunes DRM and short lived WYSIWYG editors, but since then, my tech stack and software needs to be flexible. Better to use a slightly less user friendly experience than to be locked in as the quality deteriorates.
- rilindo 3y ago
  Depending on the business or OP's role, they may not have a choice in the sofware they support.
  - hospitalJail 3y ago
    I can relate to that :(
- NegativeK 3y ago
  You could have the exact same problem with FOSS: a piece of software that the organization relies on that's ancient, crufty, and barely maintained and the org won't invest in the resources to get rid of the technical debt.
- jrockway 3y ago
  Isn't this just a reason to statically link, and recompile once a decade when the kernel ABI changes?

okanat 3y ago

Cadence for example, the software that the engineers design and run simulations of the latest and greatest ICs with, from HN's favorite RISC Vs to Nvidia's 4090, only runs on SLES and RHEL. ANSYS fluid dynamics simulator is another. All the advanced planes, future engines have been simulated with it. CATIA and NX are advanced and very expensive CAD software (the basic licensing packages for a medium grade company can easily near a million and often exceed). Both runs only on SLES or RHEL. Many large businesses use on-prem SAP deployments which runs only on SLES.

hedora 3y ago
“Only runs on”, or “is only supported on”? Debian alien worked the last time I had to install some janky rpm-only commercial software.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  If you're spending five or six figures on a licence, paying Red Hat or SUSE on top is easy, and part of the cost. It makes no sense to try and run it on Debian.
  - hedora 3y ago
    Productivity matters though (especially at 5-6 figures per seat!). If the CAD designer can't get the rest of their job done with a Red Hat box, do you want them carrying two laptops and or using an HDMI switch, or that they spend 30-60 minutes futzing with .so's until the one special snowflake program starts working on their main machine?
- okanat 3y ago
  At this scale, the difference doesn't matter. "No support" means "only runs on". Those software makes everything we use daily and we depend our literal lives on. No sane management will risk billions of losses, the literal production and accounting of the company or possible loss of human lives on some ideological or aesthetic preferences on the OS. Moreover the licensing agreements usually prevent the licensees from even trying such things. Compared to their licensing fees, RHEL or SLES are a cent to a 100 bill. Technically the programs may or may not work. Those programs are large and even if you have access to the source code, they can be very tricky to understand. Making all of their parts and their extensively used C++ plugin systems work in a foreign distro is probably harder than reverse engineering some hardware. They are not "janky commercial software". People can and do produce cars, planes, UAVs, latest supercomputers and ICs, satellites and even nuclear warheads with them. Linux userspace libraries don't provide stability or featureset guarantees and distros patch them and worsen the compatibility. Enterprise distros guarantee them and take responsibility for that. In addition the commercial software developers and their customers get premium tier support often connecting you to the developers who curated the distro. You cannot expect community to provide any of that, especially after many years of tradition of almost intentional breaking.