3 ms·

> they do store massive amounts of data about what they saw. For development prototypes, sure. For real production pieces it is unlikely to store that much dat

> they do store massive amounts of data about what they saw. For development prototypes, sure. For real production pieces it is unlikely to store that much data if any, because storage is expense and expense is lower margin and margin is thin.

cush 3y ago
It depends how long the data is stored for
AlotOfReading 3y ago
You're missing some key considerations is what I'll say. It's pretty safe to assume that the basic combo of sensor outputs+vehicle logs will be retained (subject to retention period) for the foreseeable future, both of which have potential privacy issues. All the relevant companies have lots of internal discussion about this, but very little makes it into the public sphere.
- kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
  Continuously recording video to on board flash will eventually wear out the storage. It won't last for a 10+ year vehicle life span. Making it user serviceable will just encourage fraud.
  - AlotOfReading 3y ago
    It's publicly known that the Waymo Pacificas were using FPGAs and Xeons running Linux for their main compute, which generates most of the logs and processes the sensor data. So given that context, how likely do you think it is that they're logging it all to terabytes of onboard flash? But also, lifetime analysis is standard practice during the design phase.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  Engineering talk. The moment when bean counters start talking, you will be glad for any storage and it is not going to be enough.
  - apocalyptic0n3 3y ago
    I worked for a while at an auto supplier (heavy vehicle like semis, buses, RVs, and military) in their test labs. The bean counting is real. I remember one test we had to do involved replacing a single bolt in a 200lb wheel assembly with one whose threads were 30% shorter and barely made it through the hole. It wasn't a clearance issue, per the PM and engineer, it was because shrinking that bolt saved half a penny per wheel end (or something small like that) and would put them under their targeted cost per unit, nevermind the hundreds of hours of testing that had to be run to validate the new assembly. PMs are given a target price and a target cost. They will do everything in their power to get under it because their job depends on it. Those drives are going to be the bare minimum necessary for storing what they need to (not what they want to) and will likely have a very short lifespan overall.
    - autoexec 3y ago
      When car companies start making enough money selling the data they collect they'll add all the storage needed to keep the cash flowing. If the lifespan is short they'll just force the user to get the car serviced and make them pay to replace it at the drivers expense.

cush 3y ago

It depends how long the data is stored for

AlotOfReading 3y ago

You're missing some key considerations is what I'll say. It's pretty safe to assume that the basic combo of sensor outputs+vehicle logs will be retained (subject to retention period) for the foreseeable future, both of which have potential privacy issues. All the relevant companies have lots of internal discussion about this, but very little makes it into the public sphere.

kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
Continuously recording video to on board flash will eventually wear out the storage. It won't last for a 10+ year vehicle life span. Making it user serviceable will just encourage fraud.
- AlotOfReading 3y ago
  It's publicly known that the Waymo Pacificas were using FPGAs and Xeons running Linux for their main compute, which generates most of the logs and processes the sensor data. So given that context, how likely do you think it is that they're logging it all to terabytes of onboard flash? But also, lifetime analysis is standard practice during the design phase.
TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
Engineering talk. The moment when bean counters start talking, you will be glad for any storage and it is not going to be enough.
- apocalyptic0n3 3y ago
  I worked for a while at an auto supplier (heavy vehicle like semis, buses, RVs, and military) in their test labs. The bean counting is real. I remember one test we had to do involved replacing a single bolt in a 200lb wheel assembly with one whose threads were 30% shorter and barely made it through the hole. It wasn't a clearance issue, per the PM and engineer, it was because shrinking that bolt saved half a penny per wheel end (or something small like that) and would put them under their targeted cost per unit, nevermind the hundreds of hours of testing that had to be run to validate the new assembly. PMs are given a target price and a target cost. They will do everything in their power to get under it because their job depends on it. Those drives are going to be the bare minimum necessary for storing what they need to (not what they want to) and will likely have a very short lifespan overall.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    When car companies start making enough money selling the data they collect they'll add all the storage needed to keep the cash flowing. If the lifespan is short they'll just force the user to get the car serviced and make them pay to replace it at the drivers expense.