5 ms·

Maybe we should have tried self driving trains first?

by pipo234 3y ago

kjkjadksj 3y ago
Already exists
- pipo234 3y ago
  Existence is an important first step. I'd argue it's still at least five years away from replacing my daily commute, though. So, were the train experiments successful? If so, what is stopping it from replacing regular trains? From a distance, trains should be simpler: it's just a horizontal elevator. So why are there still mostly regular trains? I think answering that will likely help explain why self-driving cars won't be a thing in at least another 10-20 years.
tonymillion 3y ago
There's a lot of driverless train systems in the world, from "automatic driving with an operator on board" (Londons DLR system for example) to fully automatic "driver/operator-less system" (i.e. very probably every time you've taken a sky tram at an airport) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driver-less_train_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driver-less_train_syst...
- pipo234 3y ago
  Yes, we've seen that it can be done. Technically. But by and far the majority of trains are still human operated. Even though the traffic rules are very straight forward ("get out of my way, or...") and the guidance systems, robotics, CC surveillance, scheduling and logistics are 99% there in (for example) major parts of continental Europe. So why are train services in Germany, Netherlands, France frequently canceled for lack of train drivers? I honoustly don't know the answer but I wager that return on investment plays a significant role. And I think the self-driving car rationale isn't all that different, except for the easy venture billions of the last decade(s).
  - tonymillion 3y ago
    Well usually it’s because of train worker union strikes and lots of lobbying on their behalf. The reality is it’s political suicide to put that many people out of work in one fell swoop and it’s expensive to replace all rolling stock in one go. So it’s down to a slow and steady war of attrition. Example: London Underground is being slowly but surely automated, while keeping an operator who is “not a driver” until they are no longer needed. And that’s one of the oldest metro train systems in the world

Maybe we should have tried self driving trains first?

kjkjadksj 3y ago

Already exists

pipo234 3y ago
Existence is an important first step. I'd argue it's still at least five years away from replacing my daily commute, though. So, were the train experiments successful? If so, what is stopping it from replacing regular trains? From a distance, trains should be simpler: it's just a horizontal elevator. So why are there still mostly regular trains? I think answering that will likely help explain why self-driving cars won't be a thing in at least another 10-20 years.

tonymillion 3y ago

There's a lot of driverless train systems in the world, from "automatic driving with an operator on board" (Londons DLR system for example) to fully automatic "driver/operator-less system" (i.e. very probably every time you've taken a sky tram at an airport) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driver-less_train_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driver-less_train_syst...

pipo234 3y ago
Yes, we've seen that it can be done. Technically. But by and far the majority of trains are still human operated. Even though the traffic rules are very straight forward ("get out of my way, or...") and the guidance systems, robotics, CC surveillance, scheduling and logistics are 99% there in (for example) major parts of continental Europe. So why are train services in Germany, Netherlands, France frequently canceled for lack of train drivers? I honoustly don't know the answer but I wager that return on investment plays a significant role. And I think the self-driving car rationale isn't all that different, except for the easy venture billions of the last decade(s).
- tonymillion 3y ago
  Well usually it’s because of train worker union strikes and lots of lobbying on their behalf. The reality is it’s political suicide to put that many people out of work in one fell swoop and it’s expensive to replace all rolling stock in one go. So it’s down to a slow and steady war of attrition. Example: London Underground is being slowly but surely automated, while keeping an operator who is “not a driver” until they are no longer needed. And that’s one of the oldest metro train systems in the world