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Texas is not redneck republican southern state - Texas is the "energy capital" of (USA/World?) - Texas have its own grid disconnected from West/East grids ht

Texas is not redneck republican southern state - Texas is the "energy capital" of (USA/World?) - Texas have its own grid disconnected from West/East grids https://www.houston.org/why-houston/industries/energy https://www.houston.org/why-houston/industries/energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Texas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Texas Someone more knowledgeable feel free to chip in with more data points

pjc50 3y ago
> is not redneck republican southern state It very much is on all those axes, even if it does have some hightech/liberal urban centres. In re: other points, much of the "energy capital" is due to its long history of oil and gas extraction, and the disconnected grid is arguably a bug rather than a feature. Even if they don't want to maintain grid sync, a HVDC link east and/or west would be of significant benefit to cost and stability.
- Qwertious 3y ago
  Texas is a large state, which makes these statistics weird - the cliched example for large states is that California has more republicans than most red states. The disconnected grid is to avoid any federal regulation (because a connection across state lines would obviously count as "interstate commerce"), which seems to have real value given the current clusterfuck of a political environment.
  - pjc50 3y ago
    > avoid any federal regulation (because a connection across state lines would obviously count as "interstate commerce"), which seems to have real value given the current clusterfuck of a political environment. Could you explain the practical advantages of this and which federal regulations the state is better off without? What particular details of federal energy regulation are bad? (Besides, given Wickard vs Fillmore I'm not convinced that disconnection would be enough to avoid incurring commerce clause regulation given a sufficiently motivated supreme court)
    - nomel 3y ago
      For reference, I pay over 65c/kw hour in the heat of the day, in California. It’s going up significantly shortly. Their power is significantly cheaper. I naively assume this is a practical advantage.
  - thinkcontext 3y ago
    Even Ted Cruz had to back down on the Texas swagger about ERCOT saving the state from communistic FERC after hundreds froze to death. Care to explain how you are immune from this reflection?
    - chrisco255 3y ago
      Yes, natural disasters happen in every state that kill thousands of people every year. A freak blizzard that plunged TX below freezing for more than a week straight, something I don't believe has ever been recorded in the state, caught the infrastructure off guard. Nature continues to throw curve balls at humanity, as ever.
      - viraptor 3y ago
        It's not really "off-guard" when they were warned about exactly that issue in a federal report in... 2011 https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-report.pdf https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-re... and still have not followed the recommendations. That does not count as a curve ball for me. Especially when the report about 2011 says: > Despite the recommendations issued by the PUCT in its report on the 1989 event, the majority of the problems generators experienced in 2011 resulted from failures of the very same type of equipment that failed in the earlier event. And in many cases, these failures were experienced by the same generators
        plagiarist 3y ago
        It's just a delusional and brainwashed right winger interacting disingenuously. I notice they have yet to author a response as to what government regulations were good to avoid, but they have a canned response why it's fine that this debacle of a grid cannot keep up with a single winter storm.
        varelse 3y ago
        [dead]
  - jackson1442 3y ago
    Considering that this lack of regulation resulted in Texas being only ”seconds and minutes” from a months-long blackout in 2021, I disagree that it is a good idea. https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/18/texas-power-outages-ercot/ https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/18/texas-power-outages-...
    - chrisco255 3y ago
      You shouldn't take hyperbole at face value. There was never, ever going to be a months-long blackout.
      - tehwebguy 3y ago
        I don’t know that, but the hyperbole does take focus away from the couple hundred people who died as a result
      - jackson1442 3y ago
        Maybe “months-long” was hyperbole, but the (former) CEO of ERCOT has stated that it would take weeks, if not longer, to do a black start of the grid. I’m inclined to believe that as a baseline since statements like that make him personally look bad. https://www.kut.org/energy-environment/2021-08-05/if-the-texas-power-grid-had-gone-down-it-would-need-a-black-start-how-long-would-that-take https://www.kut.org/energy-environment/2021-08-05/if-the-tex...
    - vorpalhex 3y ago
      Having lived on the east coast with blackouts lasting up to a week with some regularity and in Texas with one major blackout from a historical event.. I'll stick to Texas. https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/pepco-week-long-restoration-effort-in-dc-region/ https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/pepco-week-long-resto...
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        Texas has a lot more than the one blackout. Large storms cause any energy provider problems. For example: https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/18/east-texas-power-outages/ https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/18/east-texas-power-out... > More than 160,000 of their customers in East Texas and Louisiana remain without power as of 4 p.m. Sunday. Some Texans may have to wait for full restoration until June 23 — a week after losing power, the provider said.
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midoridensha 3y ago
> Texas have its own grid disconnected from West/East grids Yes, and that's why people were freezing to death in 2021. Texas is worse than all the other "redneck republican southern states": they're all smart enough to be on the grid so they can get power from other states if there's some kind of emergency or disaster. Texas is far more stupid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis
sacnoradhq 3y ago
Gigawatts of solar saved us when it was 104 F (40 C) but felt like 115 F (46 C). The humidity of this heat dome has been murderous. FWIW, I'm right at the 30 N parallel along the same plane as Cairo. My smart thermostat went into "eco" mode from the power company (Austin Energy), but I turned that off because I usually keep my inside temp at 77 F (25 C) 24/7/365. "Alexa, it's hot in here." and she nudges the thermostat (instead of playing hip-hop).
- criddell 3y ago
  > My smart thermostat went into “eco” mode from the power company How does the power company have access to your thermostat?
  - sacnoradhq 3y ago
    https://savings.austinenergy.com/residential/offerings/cooling-and-heating/pp-thermostat https://savings.austinenergy.com/residential/offerings/cooli... Some smart thermostats have links in their apps that search for local incentivized rebate programs. The mechanism of it is likely integration between the power company and the smart mfgr's cloud, especially to prevent blackouts during peak capacity shortfalls. Edit: I have an ecobee4 (calls it "eco+") but I had a Sensi thermostat on PG&E that called it something else.
    - deleted 3y ago
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MandieD 3y ago
Texas, like most states, is red in the countryside and blue in the cities, with a purple gradient through the suburbs, with a twist: the usual red-leaning landed gentry is turbocharged with mineral rights - which were initially related to, but for any given parcel, not necessarily still connected with, ownership of the land on top. So you get rich Republican rednecks who have a strong vested interest in the petroleum industry being willing and able to give them their due, either now or someday. (Grew up in a red-leaning, increasingly exurban county between Waco and Austin, with roots in deep red East and West Texas, and in the economic class of people with "would pay off a small mortgage"-level hopes in mineral rights)
- dylan604 3y ago
  Texas is one of the most gerrymandered states to keep it those shades. Just look at the maps and see the shapes of the districts as evidence. Which makes me think how much more obvious the maps were in the state where SCOTUS, just ruled their maps illegal.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    The net effect of gerrymandering isn't especially large in Texas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_Texas#:~:text=The%202022%20United%20States%20House,results%20of%20the%202020%20Census https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Re.... Texas has 38 House seats. Republicans won 65% of seats and 58% of the popular vote. California has 52 House seats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Re.... Democrats won 77% of seats with 63% of the popular vote. Texas is just a red state. Abbott won by more than 10 points in a statewide election. The cities aren't even that blue. Beto won Harris county by less than 10 points.
    - dctoedt 3y ago
      > Beto won Harris county by less than 10 points. Beto was (and is) damaged goods politically; I voted for him but figuratively held my nose doing so.
chrisco255 3y ago
Southern states are well managed when it comes to electricity and resources in general, with an average per kw rate of < 10 cents in 2021: https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/
- wffurr 3y ago
  By burning a lot of coal and relying on older nuclear and hydro generation. Hopefully their politicians’ reflexive dislike of “green” things doesn’t cause their utilities to ignore the cheapest sources of power: solar and wind.
  - nocoiner 3y ago
    Also, at least in the case of Georgia, new nuclear power generation that went vastly, vastly over budget and I presume is not yet fully reflected in ratepayer bills. At least they actually got some new units out of it, unlike South Carolina that spent billions and billions and shuttered the project.
- thinkcontext 3y ago
  Do you send thank you cards every year to the communistic coastal city dwellers that funded rural electrification, the TVA, etc?
nocoiner 3y ago
Interestingly, the true “redneck republican” states (e.g., Alabama, South Carolina, Georgia (historically, at least, though seemingly trending)) tend to have fully vertically integrated utilities (generation, distribution, delivery) and presumably have more control over maintaining quality of service. Their retail prices are quite a bit higher, for now at least, but that differential may narrow as the states that deregulated their power systems rebuild the reliability gap.
micromacrofoot 3y ago
large parts of it are definitely redneck republican southern state, but I'd also say the same of New Hampshire

pjc50 3y ago

> is not redneck republican southern state It very much is on all those axes, even if it does have some hightech/liberal urban centres. In re: other points, much of the "energy capital" is due to its long history of oil and gas extraction, and the disconnected grid is arguably a bug rather than a feature. Even if they don't want to maintain grid sync, a HVDC link east and/or west would be of significant benefit to cost and stability.

Qwertious 3y ago
Texas is a large state, which makes these statistics weird - the cliched example for large states is that California has more republicans than most red states. The disconnected grid is to avoid any federal regulation (because a connection across state lines would obviously count as "interstate commerce"), which seems to have real value given the current clusterfuck of a political environment.
- pjc50 3y ago
  > avoid any federal regulation (because a connection across state lines would obviously count as "interstate commerce"), which seems to have real value given the current clusterfuck of a political environment. Could you explain the practical advantages of this and which federal regulations the state is better off without? What particular details of federal energy regulation are bad? (Besides, given Wickard vs Fillmore I'm not convinced that disconnection would be enough to avoid incurring commerce clause regulation given a sufficiently motivated supreme court)
  - nomel 3y ago
    For reference, I pay over 65c/kw hour in the heat of the day, in California. It’s going up significantly shortly. Their power is significantly cheaper. I naively assume this is a practical advantage.
- thinkcontext 3y ago
  Even Ted Cruz had to back down on the Texas swagger about ERCOT saving the state from communistic FERC after hundreds froze to death. Care to explain how you are immune from this reflection?
  - chrisco255 3y ago
    Yes, natural disasters happen in every state that kill thousands of people every year. A freak blizzard that plunged TX below freezing for more than a week straight, something I don't believe has ever been recorded in the state, caught the infrastructure off guard. Nature continues to throw curve balls at humanity, as ever.
    - viraptor 3y ago
      It's not really "off-guard" when they were warned about exactly that issue in a federal report in... 2011 https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-report.pdf https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-re... and still have not followed the recommendations. That does not count as a curve ball for me. Especially when the report about 2011 says: > Despite the recommendations issued by the PUCT in its report on the 1989 event, the majority of the problems generators experienced in 2011 resulted from failures of the very same type of equipment that failed in the earlier event. And in many cases, these failures were experienced by the same generators
      - plagiarist 3y ago
        It's just a delusional and brainwashed right winger interacting disingenuously. I notice they have yet to author a response as to what government regulations were good to avoid, but they have a canned response why it's fine that this debacle of a grid cannot keep up with a single winter storm.
        varelse 3y ago
        [dead]
- jackson1442 3y ago
  Considering that this lack of regulation resulted in Texas being only ”seconds and minutes” from a months-long blackout in 2021, I disagree that it is a good idea. https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/18/texas-power-outages-ercot/ https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/18/texas-power-outages-...
  - chrisco255 3y ago
    You shouldn't take hyperbole at face value. There was never, ever going to be a months-long blackout.
    - tehwebguy 3y ago
      I don’t know that, but the hyperbole does take focus away from the couple hundred people who died as a result
    - jackson1442 3y ago
      Maybe “months-long” was hyperbole, but the (former) CEO of ERCOT has stated that it would take weeks, if not longer, to do a black start of the grid. I’m inclined to believe that as a baseline since statements like that make him personally look bad. https://www.kut.org/energy-environment/2021-08-05/if-the-texas-power-grid-had-gone-down-it-would-need-a-black-start-how-long-would-that-take https://www.kut.org/energy-environment/2021-08-05/if-the-tex...
  - vorpalhex 3y ago
    Having lived on the east coast with blackouts lasting up to a week with some regularity and in Texas with one major blackout from a historical event.. I'll stick to Texas. https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/pepco-week-long-restoration-effort-in-dc-region/ https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/pepco-week-long-resto...
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      Texas has a lot more than the one blackout. Large storms cause any energy provider problems. For example: https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/18/east-texas-power-outages/ https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/18/east-texas-power-out... > More than 160,000 of their customers in East Texas and Louisiana remain without power as of 4 p.m. Sunday. Some Texans may have to wait for full restoration until June 23 — a week after losing power, the provider said.
- deleted 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago
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midoridensha 3y ago

> Texas have its own grid disconnected from West/East grids Yes, and that's why people were freezing to death in 2021. Texas is worse than all the other "redneck republican southern states": they're all smart enough to be on the grid so they can get power from other states if there's some kind of emergency or disaster. Texas is far more stupid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis

sacnoradhq 3y ago

Gigawatts of solar saved us when it was 104 F (40 C) but felt like 115 F (46 C). The humidity of this heat dome has been murderous. FWIW, I'm right at the 30 N parallel along the same plane as Cairo. My smart thermostat went into "eco" mode from the power company (Austin Energy), but I turned that off because I usually keep my inside temp at 77 F (25 C) 24/7/365. "Alexa, it's hot in here." and she nudges the thermostat (instead of playing hip-hop).

criddell 3y ago
> My smart thermostat went into “eco” mode from the power company How does the power company have access to your thermostat?
- sacnoradhq 3y ago
  https://savings.austinenergy.com/residential/offerings/cooling-and-heating/pp-thermostat https://savings.austinenergy.com/residential/offerings/cooli... Some smart thermostats have links in their apps that search for local incentivized rebate programs. The mechanism of it is likely integration between the power company and the smart mfgr's cloud, especially to prevent blackouts during peak capacity shortfalls. Edit: I have an ecobee4 (calls it "eco+") but I had a Sensi thermostat on PG&E that called it something else.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

MandieD 3y ago

Texas, like most states, is red in the countryside and blue in the cities, with a purple gradient through the suburbs, with a twist: the usual red-leaning landed gentry is turbocharged with mineral rights - which were initially related to, but for any given parcel, not necessarily still connected with, ownership of the land on top. So you get rich Republican rednecks who have a strong vested interest in the petroleum industry being willing and able to give them their due, either now or someday. (Grew up in a red-leaning, increasingly exurban county between Waco and Austin, with roots in deep red East and West Texas, and in the economic class of people with "would pay off a small mortgage"-level hopes in mineral rights)

dylan604 3y ago
Texas is one of the most gerrymandered states to keep it those shades. Just look at the maps and see the shapes of the districts as evidence. Which makes me think how much more obvious the maps were in the state where SCOTUS, just ruled their maps illegal.
- rayiner 3y ago
  The net effect of gerrymandering isn't especially large in Texas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_Texas#:~:text=The%202022%20United%20States%20House,results%20of%20the%202020%20Census https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Re.... Texas has 38 House seats. Republicans won 65% of seats and 58% of the popular vote. California has 52 House seats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Re.... Democrats won 77% of seats with 63% of the popular vote. Texas is just a red state. Abbott won by more than 10 points in a statewide election. The cities aren't even that blue. Beto won Harris county by less than 10 points.
  - dctoedt 3y ago
    > Beto won Harris county by less than 10 points. Beto was (and is) damaged goods politically; I voted for him but figuratively held my nose doing so.

chrisco255 3y ago

Southern states are well managed when it comes to electricity and resources in general, with an average per kw rate of < 10 cents in 2021: https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/

wffurr 3y ago
By burning a lot of coal and relying on older nuclear and hydro generation. Hopefully their politicians’ reflexive dislike of “green” things doesn’t cause their utilities to ignore the cheapest sources of power: solar and wind.
- nocoiner 3y ago
  Also, at least in the case of Georgia, new nuclear power generation that went vastly, vastly over budget and I presume is not yet fully reflected in ratepayer bills. At least they actually got some new units out of it, unlike South Carolina that spent billions and billions and shuttered the project.
thinkcontext 3y ago
Do you send thank you cards every year to the communistic coastal city dwellers that funded rural electrification, the TVA, etc?

nocoiner 3y ago

Interestingly, the true “redneck republican” states (e.g., Alabama, South Carolina, Georgia (historically, at least, though seemingly trending)) tend to have fully vertically integrated utilities (generation, distribution, delivery) and presumably have more control over maintaining quality of service. Their retail prices are quite a bit higher, for now at least, but that differential may narrow as the states that deregulated their power systems rebuild the reliability gap.

micromacrofoot 3y ago

large parts of it are definitely redneck republican southern state, but I'd also say the same of New Hampshire