6 ms·

Does that mean nothing ever happens until you've agreed to a serious relationship? I do not see that refreshing or better in any way than our dating style.

linguae 3y ago
It depends on the definition of “nothing.” Typically one would go out on a few dates, typically 3-5, until one of the people (usually the guy, but can sometimes be the woman) confesses. However, any forms of intimacy beyond simple flirtatious gestures are normally considered off-limits until both people agree to be in a relationship, such as kissing and even hand-holding. Granted, I’m speaking in terms of broad cultural norms; individuals may choose to do differently.
2muchcoffeeman 3y ago
It's "better" because there is a culturally accepted way to move things along to the next stage of potential relationship. So if you are not good at reading the situation, you get a formal way to approach things. From the anecdotes on the page, it also sounds like creepy or awkward folks have a formal way to be weird. Which sounds like a net positive. Society expects you to give your interest a heads up.
- totallywrong 3y ago
  That just doesn't sound like a good thing. Dating is meant to be fun, awkward, wild, and everything in between, imo. It teaches you about yourself and other people. I would really hate having all that formality, but of course that's just my cultural bias.
  - linguae 3y ago
    Don’t worry; dating in Japan can be fun, awkward, wild, and much more. My friends and I have our stories. Different cultures just have different scripts.
    - totallywrong 3y ago
      Good to hear! I know Asia well and it's certainly different. But I never really gave Japan a chance (visited but the language barrier was too much), so I was curious.
lmm 3y ago
> Does that mean nothing ever happens until you've agreed to a serious relationship? You go on dates. Among people looking for a serious relationship, many women won't have sex - may not even kiss - if you haven't agreed to a serious relationship. Of course hookups exist, but looking for a hookup is a more or less separate activity from looking for a relationship, and happens in different spaces with (largely) different people. Whereas AIUI American culture is that you're supposed to do some drunken hookups and then eventually after you hook up with the same person a few times then you sort of come to a silent understanding that it's now a relationship.
- solardev 3y ago
  How do you know if you want to be in a relationship with someone without having sex with them first?
  - lmm 3y ago
    Common interests, shared life goals, all the usual things you care about in a partner. A confession doesn't mean you're married, but it means you're serious.
    - solardev 3y ago
      Are those things considered way more important than sexual compatibility then? What happens if they eventually have sex and one partner is severely disappointed, but they've already invested so much into the relationship?
      - lmm 3y ago
        > Are those things considered way more important than sexual compatibility then? I wouldn't say "way more important", but I think people would rather have a partner who they fit well together with as a household, enjoy spending time with, raise children well together (or not, if that's what they're after) etc. and have mediocre sex than someone who they had great sex with but didn't have a great relationship outside the bedroom. (If you want to be cynical you could say it's because Japanese culture puts less emphasis on sexual fidelity, particularly in the case of paid sex workers; while a lot of westerners overstate how common or normal it is, it's certainly not unknown to have a more-or-less happy marriage where one or both partners are having sex outside and this is known and accepted by the other) > What happens if they eventually have sex and one partner is severely disappointed, but they've already invested so much into the relationship? Either you decide you can live with that, or you can't and you break up, which is presumably the same thing that happens if Americans date for a while and then find out they have incompatible life plans. To me it be worse to get invested in your relationship with someone who you have great sex with and then you find out one of you wants kids and the other doesn't, or one of you wants a high-income lifestyle and the other doesn't want the stress, or you never find the same things funny, or... (I wouldn't say it's a huge investment - we're talking a few months of dating and going exclusive with that person. But you've got to put in a bit of sincerity)
sigg3 3y ago
Our dating style did have this kind of communication too, in declaring one's intentions. Either we've forgotten, discarded it or could be the result of a more nomadic lifestyle. I'm not a historian. I'm also from Norway, but I think this goes for most of Europe. However, grain of salt. If a man declared that his efforts towards a girl were an intention to get married, and subsequently reneged without good cause, the local community would deem him untrustworthy. This could make him unfit for marriage but also for employment. So not declaring one's intention if pressed was suspect. My grandmother did the housewife school to make sure she was going to be a good wife, which stems from this kind of worrying about public rejection. People didn't move around so much so your local community's estimation of you was important. As for the Japanese practice, the country was essentially "locked up" culturally until the 2nd world war so I'm not surprised old practices are still remembered. (Again, not a historian.)
- solardev 3y ago
  Not familiar with European dating customs. How does this "declaration" work? Do you announce to the other person (or the whole town) whether you wish to pursue marriage or just sex upfront? And the village would be okay with it as long as you don't lie about marriage just to get laid?
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    Its called getting engaged, you propose and she goes around town telling everyone.

linguae 3y ago

It depends on the definition of “nothing.” Typically one would go out on a few dates, typically 3-5, until one of the people (usually the guy, but can sometimes be the woman) confesses. However, any forms of intimacy beyond simple flirtatious gestures are normally considered off-limits until both people agree to be in a relationship, such as kissing and even hand-holding. Granted, I’m speaking in terms of broad cultural norms; individuals may choose to do differently.

2muchcoffeeman 3y ago

It's "better" because there is a culturally accepted way to move things along to the next stage of potential relationship. So if you are not good at reading the situation, you get a formal way to approach things. From the anecdotes on the page, it also sounds like creepy or awkward folks have a formal way to be weird. Which sounds like a net positive. Society expects you to give your interest a heads up.

totallywrong 3y ago
That just doesn't sound like a good thing. Dating is meant to be fun, awkward, wild, and everything in between, imo. It teaches you about yourself and other people. I would really hate having all that formality, but of course that's just my cultural bias.
- linguae 3y ago
  Don’t worry; dating in Japan can be fun, awkward, wild, and much more. My friends and I have our stories. Different cultures just have different scripts.
  - totallywrong 3y ago
    Good to hear! I know Asia well and it's certainly different. But I never really gave Japan a chance (visited but the language barrier was too much), so I was curious.

lmm 3y ago

> Does that mean nothing ever happens until you've agreed to a serious relationship? You go on dates. Among people looking for a serious relationship, many women won't have sex - may not even kiss - if you haven't agreed to a serious relationship. Of course hookups exist, but looking for a hookup is a more or less separate activity from looking for a relationship, and happens in different spaces with (largely) different people. Whereas AIUI American culture is that you're supposed to do some drunken hookups and then eventually after you hook up with the same person a few times then you sort of come to a silent understanding that it's now a relationship.

solardev 3y ago
How do you know if you want to be in a relationship with someone without having sex with them first?
- lmm 3y ago
  Common interests, shared life goals, all the usual things you care about in a partner. A confession doesn't mean you're married, but it means you're serious.
  - solardev 3y ago
    Are those things considered way more important than sexual compatibility then? What happens if they eventually have sex and one partner is severely disappointed, but they've already invested so much into the relationship?
    - lmm 3y ago
      > Are those things considered way more important than sexual compatibility then? I wouldn't say "way more important", but I think people would rather have a partner who they fit well together with as a household, enjoy spending time with, raise children well together (or not, if that's what they're after) etc. and have mediocre sex than someone who they had great sex with but didn't have a great relationship outside the bedroom. (If you want to be cynical you could say it's because Japanese culture puts less emphasis on sexual fidelity, particularly in the case of paid sex workers; while a lot of westerners overstate how common or normal it is, it's certainly not unknown to have a more-or-less happy marriage where one or both partners are having sex outside and this is known and accepted by the other) > What happens if they eventually have sex and one partner is severely disappointed, but they've already invested so much into the relationship? Either you decide you can live with that, or you can't and you break up, which is presumably the same thing that happens if Americans date for a while and then find out they have incompatible life plans. To me it be worse to get invested in your relationship with someone who you have great sex with and then you find out one of you wants kids and the other doesn't, or one of you wants a high-income lifestyle and the other doesn't want the stress, or you never find the same things funny, or... (I wouldn't say it's a huge investment - we're talking a few months of dating and going exclusive with that person. But you've got to put in a bit of sincerity)

sigg3 3y ago

Our dating style did have this kind of communication too, in declaring one's intentions. Either we've forgotten, discarded it or could be the result of a more nomadic lifestyle. I'm not a historian. I'm also from Norway, but I think this goes for most of Europe. However, grain of salt. If a man declared that his efforts towards a girl were an intention to get married, and subsequently reneged without good cause, the local community would deem him untrustworthy. This could make him unfit for marriage but also for employment. So not declaring one's intention if pressed was suspect. My grandmother did the housewife school to make sure she was going to be a good wife, which stems from this kind of worrying about public rejection. People didn't move around so much so your local community's estimation of you was important. As for the Japanese practice, the country was essentially "locked up" culturally until the 2nd world war so I'm not surprised old practices are still remembered. (Again, not a historian.)

solardev 3y ago
Not familiar with European dating customs. How does this "declaration" work? Do you announce to the other person (or the whole town) whether you wish to pursue marriage or just sex upfront? And the village would be okay with it as long as you don't lie about marriage just to get laid?
- willcipriano 3y ago
  Its called getting engaged, you propose and she goes around town telling everyone.