4 ms·

Lumia WOA Project – Windows 10 or Windows 11 Desktop OS for Lumia 950/XL

174 points by Lammy 3y ago

_sz6q 3y ago
Much more interesting in my opinion is another part of this same project - Windows 11 for the Surface Duo[0], which, given the much newer SoC, actually provides a somewhat usable Windows experience that can actually run x86/64 software at a serviceable speed. I bought a Duo on the cheap specifically to do this with it, and I've actually found it convenient to have a true pocket Windows PC on hand every now and then. A lot of stuff doesn't work (camera, built-in speakers, charging in Windows), but they're working on it, and a bunch more does work (Bluetooth, WiFi, autorotation, 4g). Here's[1] a full list of what works and what doesn't. They're also working on the Duo 2, but compatibility with that one is way rougher right now. [0]https://github.com/WOA-Project/SurfaceDuo-Guides https://github.com/WOA-Project/SurfaceDuo-Guides [1]https://github.com/WOA-Project/SurfaceDuo-Guides/blob/main/Status.md https://github.com/WOA-Project/SurfaceDuo-Guides/blob/main/S...
- Lammy 3y ago
  I love my Duo 2 (after doing a ton of ADB `pm disable-user com.[microsoft|google].shitware` lol) and will definitely try this out once it's better supported.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - DANmode 3y ago
    Any resources or communities weighing in on whether this is sufficient?
    - Lammy 3y ago
      Do you mean sufficient to truly disable unwanted applications? As far as I know `pm disable-user` is as good as using the "Disable" butan in the app manager GUI, except `pm` works for some packages where the GUI option is greyed-out: https://www.xda-developers.com/disable-system-app-bloatware-android/ https://www.xda-developers.com/disable-system-app-bloatware-... For reference here's the complete list of packages that came with Duo 2 Android 12: https://0.0g.gg/?451bfe451bb52c82#EVYRvWSafM4ZYWjPCwbRSZrKrjxLEJH1mLJYw4u1uDJM https://0.0g.gg/?451bfe451bb52c82#EVYRvWSafM4ZYWjPCwbRSZrKrj... And here are the ones I prefer to disable (and why): https://0.0g.gg/?4ebb0a61fba4c21c#7MJMeqjwoDCbsw2SsXKiumJjN6TkSiUPunjNZK9rLkah https://0.0g.gg/?4ebb0a61fba4c21c#7MJMeqjwoDCbsw2SsXKiumJjN6... I get most of my apps from F-Droid, and I use Aurora Store or just temporarily re-enable the two Google Play packages to install/update apps from there. Here's what I was left with after disabling all the trash, after installing one (1) Play Store app, but before installing everything else from F-Droid: https://i.imgur.com/yHIrm3u.png https://i.imgur.com/yHIrm3u.png
- dengolius 3y ago
  Saw this[1] interesting post yesterday. And now I'm thinking about to buy my friend's old Lumia phone. [1]https://virtuallyfun.com/2023/07/01/64bit-computing-on-a-budget/ https://virtuallyfun.com/2023/07/01/64bit-computing-on-a-bud...
userbinator 3y ago
I wonder if they've also stripped out the bloat/spyware. Windows 10 already feels surprisingly sluggish on powerful desktop hardware, so I can't imagine a smartphone with 3GB of RAM and a 2GHz CPU would be any better.
- NovaDudely 3y ago
  It depends on Win 10 still has some of the WP10 guts in it. WP10 was meant to be fairly close code wise to Windows 10 on PC as this was when MS was trying to converging all their software and devices. In general I have found Windows can function on fairly tight memory and processor speed if performance is not an issue. There is a lot of memory paging however.
- justsomehnguy 3y ago
  Mandatory "always install a clean version, don't use a distro from your vendor". If you take an OEM/RTL/GVLK .iso and just install it on anything with a decent SSD/NVMe drive than it would work fine. Bay Trail Atoms with 2GB RAM definitely took a hit after being updated to Win10 (well old one, like 15xx, not a modern one) but were still usable, the biggest trouble were atrocious eMMC drives, not the CPU or RAM.
  - kramerger 3y ago
    To be fair, this is no longer true. Windows will recognise your hardware (with some help from UFEI from OEM) and install OEM drivers automatically. Companies such as HP have abused this by installing all kind of crap including "analytics" as drivers.
    - justsomehnguy 3y ago
      > install OEM drivers automatically Just like it did all the time. It was called Windows Update. Now the real problem is what there are: a) drivers with a their own Electron control panel for controlling... what a .cpl with a single tab would suffice b) things what are pushed down what aren't even drivers per se. Got a bunch of shit from ASUS this way. Though there are ways to selectively ban such 'updates', sadly not in the GUI.
low_tech_punk 3y ago
The slogan "The phone that works like your PC" has definitely lived on! Curious what's the experience like when running ARM applications, especially the GUI apps. Do they out perform the X64 counterpart? How about vs. Apple silicon?
- zakki 3y ago
  Lets start naming PC as Phone Computer.
  - candiddevmike 3y ago
    Who even uses a phone majorly as a phone? Might as well be a PC that sometimes makes phone calls.
    - DANmode 3y ago
      Support staff of any kind, operations businesspeople.
  - somat 3y ago
    PC in this context should mean Pocket Computer. I like to think of them like the modern update to the pocket watch.
    - notpushkin 3y ago
      How about reviving that Pocket PC term from Windows Mobile era?
- rodgerd 3y ago
  I suspect that the biggest pain point will be the wonky behaviour of the 950 when the battery starts getting low; it reboots under load with low battery.
hsnewman 3y ago
I will pass
johnlee45 3y ago
[flagged]
josuepeq 3y ago
I’ve done this to my Lumia 950 XL. Battery performance is not great, but it is usable. If one can locate a Mugen Power external battery pack for lumia 950xl, in good condition still, it would be a usable device for having a portable computer on hand… its a nifty device when it is setup properly. It has a steep learning curve for the average person, but most people interested in doing this won’t have too much trouble. I am also participating in the DuoWoA project from the same team also led by Gustave Monce. It hopes to implement a similar approach for the Microsoft Surface Duo and Duo 2. Though it is currently working with some major drawbacks which would prevent its use as a daily driver, its overall usability is progressing very well with each release.
graycat 3y ago
They assume that their readers know what WOA abbreviates and what Lumia is and apparently at their Web site won't say. Hmm.
- rat9988 3y ago
  Well, sometimes you are not the targeted market.
- avidiax 3y ago
  WOA - Windows on ARM Lumia - a series of smartphones from Microsoft/Nokia
  - graycat 3y ago
    Thanks! Actually I'm shopping for a smartphone! So, it turns out, actually, I AM in the "targeted market"!
bartislartfast 3y ago
I have both a 950 and a 950 XL in a box here gathering dust. They're not worth enough to try and sell second hand anymore, so I'll definitely be trying this!

174 points by Lammy 3y ago

Much more interesting in my opinion is another part of this same project - Windows 11 for the Surface Duo[0], which, given the much newer SoC, actually provides a somewhat usable Windows experience that can actually run x86/64 software at a serviceable speed. I bought a Duo on the cheap specifically to do this with it, and I've actually found it convenient to have a true pocket Windows PC on hand every now and then. A lot of stuff doesn't work (camera, built-in speakers, charging in Windows), but they're working on it, and a bunch more does work (Bluetooth, WiFi, autorotation, 4g). Here's[1] a full list of what works and what doesn't. They're also working on the Duo 2, but compatibility with that one is way rougher right now. [0]https://github.com/WOA-Project/SurfaceDuo-Guides https://github.com/WOA-Project/SurfaceDuo-Guides [1]https://github.com/WOA-Project/SurfaceDuo-Guides/blob/main/Status.md https://github.com/WOA-Project/SurfaceDuo-Guides/blob/main/S...

Lammy 3y ago
I love my Duo 2 (after doing a ton of ADB `pm disable-user com.[microsoft|google].shitware` lol) and will definitely try this out once it's better supported.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- DANmode 3y ago
  Any resources or communities weighing in on whether this is sufficient?
  - Lammy 3y ago
    Do you mean sufficient to truly disable unwanted applications? As far as I know `pm disable-user` is as good as using the "Disable" butan in the app manager GUI, except `pm` works for some packages where the GUI option is greyed-out: https://www.xda-developers.com/disable-system-app-bloatware-android/ https://www.xda-developers.com/disable-system-app-bloatware-... For reference here's the complete list of packages that came with Duo 2 Android 12: https://0.0g.gg/?451bfe451bb52c82#EVYRvWSafM4ZYWjPCwbRSZrKrjxLEJH1mLJYw4u1uDJM https://0.0g.gg/?451bfe451bb52c82#EVYRvWSafM4ZYWjPCwbRSZrKrj... And here are the ones I prefer to disable (and why): https://0.0g.gg/?4ebb0a61fba4c21c#7MJMeqjwoDCbsw2SsXKiumJjN6TkSiUPunjNZK9rLkah https://0.0g.gg/?4ebb0a61fba4c21c#7MJMeqjwoDCbsw2SsXKiumJjN6... I get most of my apps from F-Droid, and I use Aurora Store or just temporarily re-enable the two Google Play packages to install/update apps from there. Here's what I was left with after disabling all the trash, after installing one (1) Play Store app, but before installing everything else from F-Droid: https://i.imgur.com/yHIrm3u.png https://i.imgur.com/yHIrm3u.png
dengolius 3y ago
Saw this[1] interesting post yesterday. And now I'm thinking about to buy my friend's old Lumia phone. [1]https://virtuallyfun.com/2023/07/01/64bit-computing-on-a-budget/ https://virtuallyfun.com/2023/07/01/64bit-computing-on-a-bud...

userbinator 3y ago

I wonder if they've also stripped out the bloat/spyware. Windows 10 already feels surprisingly sluggish on powerful desktop hardware, so I can't imagine a smartphone with 3GB of RAM and a 2GHz CPU would be any better.

NovaDudely 3y ago
It depends on Win 10 still has some of the WP10 guts in it. WP10 was meant to be fairly close code wise to Windows 10 on PC as this was when MS was trying to converging all their software and devices. In general I have found Windows can function on fairly tight memory and processor speed if performance is not an issue. There is a lot of memory paging however.
justsomehnguy 3y ago
Mandatory "always install a clean version, don't use a distro from your vendor". If you take an OEM/RTL/GVLK .iso and just install it on anything with a decent SSD/NVMe drive than it would work fine. Bay Trail Atoms with 2GB RAM definitely took a hit after being updated to Win10 (well old one, like 15xx, not a modern one) but were still usable, the biggest trouble were atrocious eMMC drives, not the CPU or RAM.
- kramerger 3y ago
  To be fair, this is no longer true. Windows will recognise your hardware (with some help from UFEI from OEM) and install OEM drivers automatically. Companies such as HP have abused this by installing all kind of crap including "analytics" as drivers.
  - justsomehnguy 3y ago
    > install OEM drivers automatically Just like it did all the time. It was called Windows Update. Now the real problem is what there are: a) drivers with a their own Electron control panel for controlling... what a .cpl with a single tab would suffice b) things what are pushed down what aren't even drivers per se. Got a bunch of shit from ASUS this way. Though there are ways to selectively ban such 'updates', sadly not in the GUI.

low_tech_punk 3y ago

The slogan "The phone that works like your PC" has definitely lived on! Curious what's the experience like when running ARM applications, especially the GUI apps. Do they out perform the X64 counterpart? How about vs. Apple silicon?

zakki 3y ago
Lets start naming PC as Phone Computer.
- candiddevmike 3y ago
  Who even uses a phone majorly as a phone? Might as well be a PC that sometimes makes phone calls.
  - DANmode 3y ago
    Support staff of any kind, operations businesspeople.
- somat 3y ago
  PC in this context should mean Pocket Computer. I like to think of them like the modern update to the pocket watch.
  - notpushkin 3y ago
    How about reviving that Pocket PC term from Windows Mobile era?
rodgerd 3y ago
I suspect that the biggest pain point will be the wonky behaviour of the 950 when the battery starts getting low; it reboots under load with low battery.

hsnewman 3y ago

I will pass

johnlee45 3y ago

[flagged]

josuepeq 3y ago

I’ve done this to my Lumia 950 XL. Battery performance is not great, but it is usable. If one can locate a Mugen Power external battery pack for lumia 950xl, in good condition still, it would be a usable device for having a portable computer on hand… its a nifty device when it is setup properly. It has a steep learning curve for the average person, but most people interested in doing this won’t have too much trouble. I am also participating in the DuoWoA project from the same team also led by Gustave Monce. It hopes to implement a similar approach for the Microsoft Surface Duo and Duo 2. Though it is currently working with some major drawbacks which would prevent its use as a daily driver, its overall usability is progressing very well with each release.

graycat 3y ago

They assume that their readers know what WOA abbreviates and what Lumia is and apparently at their Web site won't say. Hmm.

rat9988 3y ago
Well, sometimes you are not the targeted market.
avidiax 3y ago
WOA - Windows on ARM Lumia - a series of smartphones from Microsoft/Nokia
- graycat 3y ago
  Thanks! Actually I'm shopping for a smartphone! So, it turns out, actually, I AM in the "targeted market"!

bartislartfast 3y ago

I have both a 950 and a 950 XL in a box here gathering dust. They're not worth enough to try and sell second hand anymore, so I'll definitely be trying this!