4 ms·

If I could get a pound every time the Telegraph predicted the end of France, I could safely take my retirement in a paradise island right now. Too bad they wer

by adev_ 3y ago

If I could get a pound every time the Telegraph predicted the end of France, I could safely take my retirement in a paradise island right now. Too bad they were much more "conservative" to predict this bloody mess that became Brexit...

rektide 3y ago
This take is absolute classic Telegraph shit. My own tendencies lay way more in sympathy to the people, support protests, believe it's part of the great arch of society. I don't want to agree with this article at all. And it's not this incident specifically. I hate it, but I have some unease about tensions in general & how they manifest. I believe in the social contract, and I'm not sure how we can fulfill our obligations to ourselves, and how we can renew a sense of justice & improvement after things go wrong. I don't know the situation in France well, but in general, I've harbored some worry in the last 5 years or so that (often justified & honest & deserved) reactions can have large negative impacts on society, and I don't think we the world have the margins to soak these kinds of losses that we used to. Ideally the world would be more oriented towards sustainability, towards resilience, would have safety nets, and be better prepared. But it feels like so much of our social structures do - and i hate to say this, hate the conservatism this implies - rest delicately or precariously in balance. I really so strongly agree with what you are saying. But I also want to find some way to find some permissible perspectives that recognize some of the nuance / scaredness, that can acknowledge some of the very conservative fear for the status quo & it's disruption, ideally without having to also demonize & counter-attack while doing so.
- stargrazer 3y ago
  I think a large part of it is that they imported a bunch of different disparate cultures over the last few years. All those cultures have their own little societies, and I think very little integration. So you have a mixture of oil and water. And when the new ones have no home or responsibilities and are fed by the government, well, ha, who knew they would bite the hand that housed, fed, and clothed them.
WheelsAtLarge 3y ago
Everyone and their brother predicted the Brexit mess. France definitely has a problem. Somewhere along the way people started to believe that the only way to affect change is thru riots and mass destruction. That's how I see it as an outsider. The bigger problem is that this type of actions is fuel for a conservative strong person to take over as a leader. It may not be the end for France but big changes are coming to it, if things don't change. Eventually the majority gets scared and vote in a law and order strong man.
- fmobus 3y ago
  > Somewhere along the way people started to believe that the only way to affect change is thru riots and mass destruction Probably around 1789?
  - WheelsAtLarge 3y ago
    Yes, and you know how that turned out. A world war, a strong man that called himself emperor and many lives lost. Napoleon was so hated that before there was a Hitler, Napoleon was used as the sample of the most hated and horrible man in history. There are better ways to bring about change than to riot and destroy.
deleted 3y ago
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by adev_ 3y ago

rektide 3y ago

This take is absolute classic Telegraph shit. My own tendencies lay way more in sympathy to the people, support protests, believe it's part of the great arch of society. I don't want to agree with this article at all. And it's not this incident specifically. I hate it, but I have some unease about tensions in general & how they manifest. I believe in the social contract, and I'm not sure how we can fulfill our obligations to ourselves, and how we can renew a sense of justice & improvement after things go wrong. I don't know the situation in France well, but in general, I've harbored some worry in the last 5 years or so that (often justified & honest & deserved) reactions can have large negative impacts on society, and I don't think we the world have the margins to soak these kinds of losses that we used to. Ideally the world would be more oriented towards sustainability, towards resilience, would have safety nets, and be better prepared. But it feels like so much of our social structures do - and i hate to say this, hate the conservatism this implies - rest delicately or precariously in balance. I really so strongly agree with what you are saying. But I also want to find some way to find some permissible perspectives that recognize some of the nuance / scaredness, that can acknowledge some of the very conservative fear for the status quo & it's disruption, ideally without having to also demonize & counter-attack while doing so.

stargrazer 3y ago
I think a large part of it is that they imported a bunch of different disparate cultures over the last few years. All those cultures have their own little societies, and I think very little integration. So you have a mixture of oil and water. And when the new ones have no home or responsibilities and are fed by the government, well, ha, who knew they would bite the hand that housed, fed, and clothed them.

WheelsAtLarge 3y ago

Everyone and their brother predicted the Brexit mess. France definitely has a problem. Somewhere along the way people started to believe that the only way to affect change is thru riots and mass destruction. That's how I see it as an outsider. The bigger problem is that this type of actions is fuel for a conservative strong person to take over as a leader. It may not be the end for France but big changes are coming to it, if things don't change. Eventually the majority gets scared and vote in a law and order strong man.

fmobus 3y ago
> Somewhere along the way people started to believe that the only way to affect change is thru riots and mass destruction Probably around 1789?
- WheelsAtLarge 3y ago
  Yes, and you know how that turned out. A world war, a strong man that called himself emperor and many lives lost. Napoleon was so hated that before there was a Hitler, Napoleon was used as the sample of the most hated and horrible man in history. There are better ways to bring about change than to riot and destroy.

deleted 3y ago

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