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Rail has a decent value proposition against single occupancy ice cars for commuting, especially American monstrosities. But the EV revolution isn't "just cars,

Rail has a decent value proposition against single occupancy ice cars for commuting, especially American monstrosities. But the EV revolution isn't "just cars, but electric". EVs are much more flexible as a platform because the batteries are already manufactured in a highly scalable flexible form factor: the cell. Ultimately an ebike, escooter, e kei car, are going to be cheaper, faster, more convenient, environmentally better, and less infrastructure intensive. So the article seems to reflect an old battle mindset: ice cars vs rail. Imo both are obsolete already, pending scale up of high density sodium ion and lfp cells. And if sulfur gets commercialized at 2x the density? This doesn't even account for convergent infrastructure and self driving tech which has the ability to utilize transportation infrastructure to a higher degree than is possible now.

nimbleplum40 3y ago
Trains are obsolete because of EVs? Lots of trains are already electric (and many have been for 100+ years). And there’s not really a better option for moving a huge amount of people short-medium distances.
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  A bike path filled with ebikes and scooters is better than rail, cheaper, more resilient, more easily repaired, more flexible, always in service. Small e vehicles can do 30mph, which is likely effectively the same speed as a train when you consider lack of waiting, fare payment, intermediate stops, delays, transportation to/from the station. EVs are much more flexible for modes and platforms than ices because all the motor form favors exist, they are simple (motor battery brakes) modular (removable batteries) and don't involve smelly gas and oil.
  - nimbleplum40 3y ago
    I’m very pro ebike, so I’d love more paths for the them. But they aren’t a complete replacement for trains. Trains still have a greater capacity (see the Lexington Avenue line in NYC - 1.3 million riders per day, pre covid). They’re also way better in bad weather, more accessible for people with disabilities, better for families, allow you to do other things while commuting, and way better for long distances. But e-bikes > cars. 100%
Symbiote 3y ago
The rail EV revolution started in the 19th century, and was complete in the early 20th century for the types of journeys we're discussing.
bedobi 3y ago
Criticism against cars in urban areas have very little to do with ice vs electric. Cars simply aren't a good technology for moving lots of people in an urban environment.
lmm 3y ago
E-bikes and especially e-scooters are a great complement to trains, and potentially fix the problem in this article - if you have a scooter you can take on the train, then getting from the other end to your destination becomes a lot easier. Or even if you don't take it in the train, commuter-scale bike parking at stations is a lot more practical than commuter-scale car parking.
msla 3y ago
Ebikes and Escooters don't solve the grocery problem: You live somewhere which isn't a small efficiency apartment downtown. Your city experiences what people outside of Southern California call "weather" which makes it difficult and dangerous to travel for extensive periods of the year. You are, perhaps, not even under thirty years old, as difficult as that may be to grasp. You, therefore, need a way to get as many groceries into your home as possible while the "weather" is tractable. This requires a vehicle with cargo space. Nothing you mentioned has that unless you buy a wagon or other trailer to pull behind the vehicle, which would destroy your mileage.
rsynnott 3y ago
The issue with cars in a dense area is that they're extremely space inefficient. If you took, say, central London, and ripped out all the public transport, no amount of electric cars would make that work.
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  You're assuming cars EV is about ebikes, escooter, eblades, etc and those are much much much more dense.

nimbleplum40 3y ago

Trains are obsolete because of EVs? Lots of trains are already electric (and many have been for 100+ years). And there’s not really a better option for moving a huge amount of people short-medium distances.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago
A bike path filled with ebikes and scooters is better than rail, cheaper, more resilient, more easily repaired, more flexible, always in service. Small e vehicles can do 30mph, which is likely effectively the same speed as a train when you consider lack of waiting, fare payment, intermediate stops, delays, transportation to/from the station. EVs are much more flexible for modes and platforms than ices because all the motor form favors exist, they are simple (motor battery brakes) modular (removable batteries) and don't involve smelly gas and oil.
- nimbleplum40 3y ago
  I’m very pro ebike, so I’d love more paths for the them. But they aren’t a complete replacement for trains. Trains still have a greater capacity (see the Lexington Avenue line in NYC - 1.3 million riders per day, pre covid). They’re also way better in bad weather, more accessible for people with disabilities, better for families, allow you to do other things while commuting, and way better for long distances. But e-bikes > cars. 100%

Symbiote 3y ago

The rail EV revolution started in the 19th century, and was complete in the early 20th century for the types of journeys we're discussing.

bedobi 3y ago

Criticism against cars in urban areas have very little to do with ice vs electric. Cars simply aren't a good technology for moving lots of people in an urban environment.

lmm 3y ago

E-bikes and especially e-scooters are a great complement to trains, and potentially fix the problem in this article - if you have a scooter you can take on the train, then getting from the other end to your destination becomes a lot easier. Or even if you don't take it in the train, commuter-scale bike parking at stations is a lot more practical than commuter-scale car parking.

msla 3y ago

Ebikes and Escooters don't solve the grocery problem: You live somewhere which isn't a small efficiency apartment downtown. Your city experiences what people outside of Southern California call "weather" which makes it difficult and dangerous to travel for extensive periods of the year. You are, perhaps, not even under thirty years old, as difficult as that may be to grasp. You, therefore, need a way to get as many groceries into your home as possible while the "weather" is tractable. This requires a vehicle with cargo space. Nothing you mentioned has that unless you buy a wagon or other trailer to pull behind the vehicle, which would destroy your mileage.

rsynnott 3y ago

The issue with cars in a dense area is that they're extremely space inefficient. If you took, say, central London, and ripped out all the public transport, no amount of electric cars would make that work.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago
You're assuming cars EV is about ebikes, escooter, eblades, etc and those are much much much more dense.