4 ms·

> The study also found that roughly 75 percent of the white students admitted from those four categories, labeled 'ALDCs' in the study, “would have been rejecte

> The study also found that roughly 75 percent of the white students admitted from those four categories, labeled 'ALDCs' in the study, “would have been rejected if they had been treated as white non-ALDCs,” the study said.

xienze 3y ago
And 100% of affirmative action students would have been rejected otherwise. So this cohort is doing a little better by that standard.
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  What are you basing this conclusion on?
  - seizethecheese 3y ago
    I’m not the above commenter, but it seems obviously true? They’re not saying minority students, but affirmative action ones.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  That's not the right comparison. You compare white people to another ethnicity, not to a program. 100% of white legacies that got in because they were legacies got in because they were legacies. That represents 75% of the people who are white legacies, and 31% of white Harvard students. So the comparison is between e.g. black Harvard students and white Harvard students - would more than 69% of black Harvard students have gotten in even without racial preferences? Maybe, maybe not, but I guarantee you don't know. You're just using Affirmative Action as a euphemism for black, like a racist would. And in addition, racial preferences have been struck down by the Supreme Court, I hope you know, so that means that 31% advantage now stands out there alone, rewarded because one fell out of status quo genitals.
  - germandiago 3y ago
    I am the only one who thinks doing identity policies is harmful? For every person that you do not base stuff exclusively in their performance someone is out.
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      Obviously not, the clear majority here is anti affirmative action so don't make it out like it's a controversial marginalized position in this context. Anyway though what performance? We're talking about college students they don't do anything yet. But how about for example the fact that black people are more likely to be misdiagnosed and undertreated unless the doctor is black. If you care primarily about harm, with that in mind, getting the percentage of black doctors higher than 5% is something you'd be concerned with, I would think.
  - xienze 3y ago
    > That's not the right comparison. You compare white people to another ethnicity, not to a program. Yes it is, because the entire point of showing these statistics about white legacy students is to “shut up” people arguing against affirmative action by going “see, white people get their own form of preferential treatment too!”
yumraj 3y ago
What’s ALDC? The article didn’t specify.
- idlewords 3y ago
  [A]thlete, [L]egacy, [D]ean's interest list (i.e children of big donors), [C]hildren of faculty and staff
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bdw5204 3y ago
  Athletes (recruited by the sports teams), legacies (children of alums), Dean's interest list (relatives of donors) and children of faculty and staff.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
User23 3y ago
What it basically means is working class White middle Americans need not apply. Which is unfortunate, because there is a lot of potential talent there.
- akira2501 3y ago
  That's the apparent implication; however, we actually have no data on _who_ might have replaced those 75% otherwise. Given the population metrics of the United States, it's highly likely that a different group of mostly White People would have taken their place.
- dogmatism 3y ago
  Nah, I'm not working class and neither is my wife. We're professional children of professionals, but neither went to an Ivy. Both good athletes, but DIII not DI. Neither of my 2 kids, both with honestly ridiculously good grades (one had perfect ACT too) and what I thought were decent extracurriculars (all-state bands, scholastic divisional all-stars) got into even what I once considered second rate schools (Tufts, Bowdoin, Carnegie-Mellon, etc) Now, we didn't do any of the paid college admissions stuff, first because I still can't believe a valedictorian with a perfect ACT should need anything more to get into Brown, let alone BU, and secondly because I'm philosophically opposed to the whole "top college" thing anyway Let's be honest, they're kicking ass at the schools they got into, and to paraphrase an old expression, they already started life on second base, they'll be fine regardless I just wish we didn't live in world that sees which college you attend as some innate measure of your quality as a student or your potential, because they is demonstrably untrue, yet the myth persists
MilnerRoute 3y ago
The A stands for "athletic recruits". It's weird that it's grouped together with the other three categories. (Relatives of alumni/major donors, and the children of faculty.) But I Googled how much of Harvard's funding comes from donations by alumni, and it's 26%.[1] So maybe the real problem is the admissions office is almost certainly, at some point, making a calculation about how likely a prospective student is to graduate and then gratefully make donations. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/02/11/harvard-received-1-4-billion-in-donations-last-year-infographic/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/02/11/harvar...
- hgsgm 3y ago
  Perhaps a better way would be to be upfront about pricing, and honestly sell seats at auction prices to qualified applicants, plus discounts for some students to hit economic and demographics diversity targets.

xienze 3y ago

And 100% of affirmative action students would have been rejected otherwise. So this cohort is doing a little better by that standard.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago
What are you basing this conclusion on?
- seizethecheese 3y ago
  I’m not the above commenter, but it seems obviously true? They’re not saying minority students, but affirmative action ones.
pessimizer 3y ago
That's not the right comparison. You compare white people to another ethnicity, not to a program. 100% of white legacies that got in because they were legacies got in because they were legacies. That represents 75% of the people who are white legacies, and 31% of white Harvard students. So the comparison is between e.g. black Harvard students and white Harvard students - would more than 69% of black Harvard students have gotten in even without racial preferences? Maybe, maybe not, but I guarantee you don't know. You're just using Affirmative Action as a euphemism for black, like a racist would. And in addition, racial preferences have been struck down by the Supreme Court, I hope you know, so that means that 31% advantage now stands out there alone, rewarded because one fell out of status quo genitals.
- germandiago 3y ago
  I am the only one who thinks doing identity policies is harmful? For every person that you do not base stuff exclusively in their performance someone is out.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    Obviously not, the clear majority here is anti affirmative action so don't make it out like it's a controversial marginalized position in this context. Anyway though what performance? We're talking about college students they don't do anything yet. But how about for example the fact that black people are more likely to be misdiagnosed and undertreated unless the doctor is black. If you care primarily about harm, with that in mind, getting the percentage of black doctors higher than 5% is something you'd be concerned with, I would think.
- xienze 3y ago
  > That's not the right comparison. You compare white people to another ethnicity, not to a program. Yes it is, because the entire point of showing these statistics about white legacy students is to “shut up” people arguing against affirmative action by going “see, white people get their own form of preferential treatment too!”

yumraj 3y ago

What’s ALDC? The article didn’t specify.

idlewords 3y ago
[A]thlete, [L]egacy, [D]ean's interest list (i.e children of big donors), [C]hildren of faculty and staff
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bdw5204 3y ago
Athletes (recruited by the sports teams), legacies (children of alums), Dean's interest list (relatives of donors) and children of faculty and staff.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

User23 3y ago

What it basically means is working class White middle Americans need not apply. Which is unfortunate, because there is a lot of potential talent there.

akira2501 3y ago
That's the apparent implication; however, we actually have no data on _who_ might have replaced those 75% otherwise. Given the population metrics of the United States, it's highly likely that a different group of mostly White People would have taken their place.
dogmatism 3y ago
Nah, I'm not working class and neither is my wife. We're professional children of professionals, but neither went to an Ivy. Both good athletes, but DIII not DI. Neither of my 2 kids, both with honestly ridiculously good grades (one had perfect ACT too) and what I thought were decent extracurriculars (all-state bands, scholastic divisional all-stars) got into even what I once considered second rate schools (Tufts, Bowdoin, Carnegie-Mellon, etc) Now, we didn't do any of the paid college admissions stuff, first because I still can't believe a valedictorian with a perfect ACT should need anything more to get into Brown, let alone BU, and secondly because I'm philosophically opposed to the whole "top college" thing anyway Let's be honest, they're kicking ass at the schools they got into, and to paraphrase an old expression, they already started life on second base, they'll be fine regardless I just wish we didn't live in world that sees which college you attend as some innate measure of your quality as a student or your potential, because they is demonstrably untrue, yet the myth persists

MilnerRoute 3y ago

The A stands for "athletic recruits". It's weird that it's grouped together with the other three categories. (Relatives of alumni/major donors, and the children of faculty.) But I Googled how much of Harvard's funding comes from donations by alumni, and it's 26%.[1] So maybe the real problem is the admissions office is almost certainly, at some point, making a calculation about how likely a prospective student is to graduate and then gratefully make donations. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/02/11/harvard-received-1-4-billion-in-donations-last-year-infographic/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/02/11/harvar...

hgsgm 3y ago
Perhaps a better way would be to be upfront about pricing, and honestly sell seats at auction prices to qualified applicants, plus discounts for some students to hit economic and demographics diversity targets.