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Open source bounty sites are, in my experience, geared toward solving developer problems. It's rare to see non-coders visit an OSS bounty site and create a bou

Open source bounty sites are, in my experience, geared toward solving developer problems. It's rare to see non-coders visit an OSS bounty site and create a bounty. We're geared toward normal people funding the software projects. Normal people don't want to compile sourcecode; we provide developers incentives for distributing binaries. Normal people don't use wiki markup to describe what they want; we let them use a WSIWYG editor. Normal people also use different platforms (mostly Windows and Mac). Making binaries work across platforms (12 people want Windows, 5 people want Mac, 3 only care about the source...) and giving the developer the tools to field those platforms (Is there demand for a Mac port? Is it worth my time?) is something that hasn't been solved yet by any bounty system I've seen.

davidw 18y ago
I'd be as happy as all get out to see a solution to one of the problems of open source economics: connecting developers with money in order to create a positive feedback loop where developers make more money and can spend more time on their projects. However... "It's rare to see non-coders visit an OSS bounty site and create a bounty." There's a good reason for that: normal people are going to look for something that does what they want, now, not go through all the hassle of bounties and other things only to possibly see some code who knows when. Maybe the site can be 'salvaged' by doing some creative tweaking to make it into something else that is a little bit more likely to make money? Good luck in any case!
- drewcrawford 18y ago
  That's quite true. Most normal people want a solution now. We're trying to mitigate that where we can; for instance a pledge is a 30-day commitment (rather than a perpetual one). If nothing satisfactory is released in that time, the money can be easily withdrawn. Regardless of what we do, there's going to be less "normal people" contributing to projects than the number of normal people actually using the stuff after it's gone through the process. Our hope here is that our search and drilldown options (and some other stuff in the works) will help the normal people find what they're looking for after it's released. We think "finding-the-right-software-for-X" is a big open problem, and we'd like to take a crack at it.
  - davidw 18y ago
    > "finding-the-right-software-for-X" is a big open problem, That might make for a good site. Help connect people with open source software, and consultants who can assist them with it. For values of people where people == 'small businesses'.
  - tptacek 18y ago
    Wait --- I have to actually pay money and then hope I get software? I don't think anybody is going to do this, Drew.
    - theoneweasel 18y ago
      If a project isn't being completed to your satisfaction, you have the option to withdraw your money 30 days after you contributed it. Among other things, this gives developers incentive to complete projects and to complete them before you stop caring.
      - tptacek 18y ago
        There is a huge difference between paying money and getting it back, and promising money. I still don't see how this site is any better than any of the 100 freelance job sites out there now.
        theoneweasel 18y ago
        The major difference between bitloot and sites like Rent A Coder is that we promote open-source software. With the OSS model, everyone benefits, not just the people who pay. We don't want to be Rent A Coder, that's a different market.
        tptacek 18y ago
        But you can list open-source projects on RentACoder if you want.
tsetse-fly 18y ago
Who are these "normal people?" Can you give an example of software they would be interested in funding? I'm having a hard time imagining exactly who you're targeting. How is this different than microPledge?
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- drewcrawford 18y ago
  * College kids who want a good, free game to play at a LAN party * My mom, who wants a free alternative to MS Word that works well on Windows and is less intimidating than OO (and more powerful than Google Docs) * People who saw an OSS tool running on their friend's Linux and want a port to their platform * People who run existing closed-source software that they want to add a feature to, but can't * People like me who code, but are too busy to learn to hack Platform X just to get Feature Y I was a long-time mp user. Unfortunately they are no longer operating. As I understand it, their model was more focused on funding (mostly closed) software in an open way. Of course, it's difficult to convince closed-source people that community funding is a good idea, and I think that was one of several challenges they faced before shutting down. Our focus is completely different. We want to connect people with OSS. A large part of that is money (because money is a strong attractive force). We talk about it a lot, because people start listening when you tell them they're going to get paid. But there are other problems too--search (how do people find OSS projects?), developer time (I have a week--what do I work on?). These problems are far out of bounds of micropledge or other bounty or funding systems.
  - tsetse-fly 18y ago
    Those examples are a bit of a stretch. The number of "normal people" who understand that they need new software written must be very small. College kids who want a good, free game to play at a LAN party College students pirate software. If they want a free game then who is supposed to fund the idea on your site? I don't think people want cheesy open-source games. They want quality graphics and good gameplay. You can't achieve that with a shoestring budget and without a team. My mom, who wants a free alternative to MS Word that works well on Windows and is less intimidating than OO (and more powerful than Google Docs) Does your mother really know that she needs someone to write an alternative to MS Word? She knows enough to seek out a developer and is willing to invest in software that no one else has used? I don't see people trusting their documents to an untested word processor and I don't think they would pledge money for it. OOo and Google Docs are good, free, alternatives. Most open-source software projects are started as some hacker's pet project. If I'm going to get paid to write an MS Paint clone for the Mac then I'll keep it closed and sell it myself since normal people don't understand or care about OSS.
fauigerzigerk 18y ago
Normal people are not interested in open source. You should make that optional, but it's probably an ideological decision on your part, not a business decision. I accept that.

davidw 18y ago

I'd be as happy as all get out to see a solution to one of the problems of open source economics: connecting developers with money in order to create a positive feedback loop where developers make more money and can spend more time on their projects. However... "It's rare to see non-coders visit an OSS bounty site and create a bounty." There's a good reason for that: normal people are going to look for something that does what they want, now, not go through all the hassle of bounties and other things only to possibly see some code who knows when. Maybe the site can be 'salvaged' by doing some creative tweaking to make it into something else that is a little bit more likely to make money? Good luck in any case!

drewcrawford 18y ago
That's quite true. Most normal people want a solution now. We're trying to mitigate that where we can; for instance a pledge is a 30-day commitment (rather than a perpetual one). If nothing satisfactory is released in that time, the money can be easily withdrawn. Regardless of what we do, there's going to be less "normal people" contributing to projects than the number of normal people actually using the stuff after it's gone through the process. Our hope here is that our search and drilldown options (and some other stuff in the works) will help the normal people find what they're looking for after it's released. We think "finding-the-right-software-for-X" is a big open problem, and we'd like to take a crack at it.
- davidw 18y ago
  > "finding-the-right-software-for-X" is a big open problem, That might make for a good site. Help connect people with open source software, and consultants who can assist them with it. For values of people where people == 'small businesses'.
- tptacek 18y ago
  Wait --- I have to actually pay money and then hope I get software? I don't think anybody is going to do this, Drew.
  - theoneweasel 18y ago
    If a project isn't being completed to your satisfaction, you have the option to withdraw your money 30 days after you contributed it. Among other things, this gives developers incentive to complete projects and to complete them before you stop caring.
    - tptacek 18y ago
      There is a huge difference between paying money and getting it back, and promising money. I still don't see how this site is any better than any of the 100 freelance job sites out there now.
      - theoneweasel 18y ago
        The major difference between bitloot and sites like Rent A Coder is that we promote open-source software. With the OSS model, everyone benefits, not just the people who pay. We don't want to be Rent A Coder, that's a different market.
        tptacek 18y ago
        But you can list open-source projects on RentACoder if you want.

tsetse-fly 18y ago

Who are these "normal people?" Can you give an example of software they would be interested in funding? I'm having a hard time imagining exactly who you're targeting. How is this different than microPledge?

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
drewcrawford 18y ago
* College kids who want a good, free game to play at a LAN party * My mom, who wants a free alternative to MS Word that works well on Windows and is less intimidating than OO (and more powerful than Google Docs) * People who saw an OSS tool running on their friend's Linux and want a port to their platform * People who run existing closed-source software that they want to add a feature to, but can't * People like me who code, but are too busy to learn to hack Platform X just to get Feature Y I was a long-time mp user. Unfortunately they are no longer operating. As I understand it, their model was more focused on funding (mostly closed) software in an open way. Of course, it's difficult to convince closed-source people that community funding is a good idea, and I think that was one of several challenges they faced before shutting down. Our focus is completely different. We want to connect people with OSS. A large part of that is money (because money is a strong attractive force). We talk about it a lot, because people start listening when you tell them they're going to get paid. But there are other problems too--search (how do people find OSS projects?), developer time (I have a week--what do I work on?). These problems are far out of bounds of micropledge or other bounty or funding systems.
- tsetse-fly 18y ago
  Those examples are a bit of a stretch. The number of "normal people" who understand that they need new software written must be very small. College kids who want a good, free game to play at a LAN party College students pirate software. If they want a free game then who is supposed to fund the idea on your site? I don't think people want cheesy open-source games. They want quality graphics and good gameplay. You can't achieve that with a shoestring budget and without a team. My mom, who wants a free alternative to MS Word that works well on Windows and is less intimidating than OO (and more powerful than Google Docs) Does your mother really know that she needs someone to write an alternative to MS Word? She knows enough to seek out a developer and is willing to invest in software that no one else has used? I don't see people trusting their documents to an untested word processor and I don't think they would pledge money for it. OOo and Google Docs are good, free, alternatives. Most open-source software projects are started as some hacker's pet project. If I'm going to get paid to write an MS Paint clone for the Mac then I'll keep it closed and sell it myself since normal people don't understand or care about OSS.

fauigerzigerk 18y ago

Normal people are not interested in open source. You should make that optional, but it's probably an ideological decision on your part, not a business decision. I accept that.