6 ms·

Chinese Tech Terms Explained in English

179 points by paradite 3y ago

omeze 3y ago
This is interesting, always fun to see the same work in a different light and perspective. Btw Id say chendian is “retrospective”, which most tech companies do after projects but some do them regularly. I also worked at a trading firm that did retros for big trades
- pySSK 3y ago
  To me, it feels like “intuition” although it has different origins covers all of the resulting meanings.
caonidaye 3y ago
These terms are often referred to as 黑话. Just fancier jargons.
- resolutebat 3y ago
  Personally, I would reserve Black Speech (the literal meaning of 黑话) for VPs and the PR department. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Speech
zen928 3y ago
[flagged]
- vore 3y ago
  You know, when terms get transferred from other languages, they don't always retain the meaning from the original language and may undergo a semantic change in the destination language. For instance, nobody is going to characterize the modern usage of "demagogue" (originally just meaning "a popular leader" from Greek) as "purposefully misleading", and you shouldn't be doing that for these Chinese terms either. Also I don't know where you're getting this "intended cultural exclusion" thing from when that's what you yourself are doing in your comment by insisting your outsider interpretation of these terms in a different cultural context is correct. Thanks!
- bluepod4 3y ago
  So passive aggressive lol. It’s ironic that your username says “zen”. I’ve never even heard a native Chinese coworker use these terms before. It seems you haven’t either.
- pySSK 3y ago
  The only interesting and unique concept in this list is “lunzi”. Everything else is Sapir-Whorfian bullshit.
- pyrale 3y ago
  > I'll be sure to correct any chinese coworkers I have using these purposefully misleading phrases instead of the correct ones. Thanks! People communicating with other people using native language? We can't have that! Please revert to proper international languages like latin or esperanto immediately!
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    Or for those who wish to cross the lack of baggage of latin with the popularity of esperanto, there's Peano's (yes, that Peano) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latino_sine_flexione https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latino_sine_flexione ...
H8crilA 3y ago
What's unique here is that those terms are not transliterations of English terms. Which is what happens in most European languages. I'm guessing that apart from increased phonetic distance what also matters is the size of the language, i.e. the number of speakers. With more speakers it's more likely that someone will create a neat native term for a new concept that spreads successfully, instead of adopting a foreign one.
- jareklupinski 3y ago
  > As individual characters, “mai” means burying, and “dian” means points. The phrase “maidian” literally means “embedding points” or “burying seeds”. > It can be translated into tracking, tagging or user data analytics depending on the context. or "breadcrumbs", to highlight the similarity of stuffing someone's pockets with something that trickles out so they can be found later
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    Breadcrumbs is arguably an English word that only makes sense after you read the Children's Story: Hansel and Gretel. Where Hansel and Gretel use breadcrumbs to find their way back home (except not really, cause the birds eat the crumbs and so they get lost). ------------- I've been told of various Chinese phrases that have similar story-driven meanings. Ex: "Pour more oil" is something to do with Sima Yi filling the torch of Zhuge Liang in the tomb. Sima Yi, a lifelong enemy of Zhuge Liang, is somewhat expected to defile the tomb, but instead honors his fallen enemy by pouring more oil and keeping the light going. I forgot what "pour more oil" means in Chinese, but its something to do with respect, even respect towards a sworn enemy. ------------ English has "Breadcrumbs", "Sour Grapes", "Break a leg"... Actually, English also has "Adding fuel to the fire", which is almost the opposite of the Chinese meaning.
    - vore 3y ago
      Unless you are referring to another term, "add oil" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/加油 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/加油) is just a term of encouragement, derived from the verb to refuel a car. I don't think it really has a connotation of respect.
gyrccc 3y ago
Fun read. I found "maidian" more intuitively understood as "embedding dots" instead of "embedding seeds", since tracking dots (or tracking pixels) are often used for analytics and "dian"'s literal meaning is "dot".
- paradite 3y ago
  Thanks for the suggestion. Updated the article to reflect this.
brown 3y ago
The domain name made me curious: http://10x.engineer/ http://10x.engineer/ "404 Not Found: 10x Engineers aren't real" Well played.
atleastoptimal 3y ago
I wonder if a shorter, catchier word means an idea is more commonplace, or a shorter catchier word can end up causing an idea to be applied more.
computerlab 3y ago
"lunzi" and "huidu" are both nice concise terms, would be nice to have an terse english equivalent. I am curious if knowing this sort of term is actually helpful for the average engineer working at an org like bytedance, or if things are siloed to the point that the eng orgs are basically separate with limited Chinese-English collaboration outside of certain management teams. PS: If you're interested in learning more Chinese tech terms, I've put together an Anki deck of 330+ cards with example sentences. Anki deck: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1351796314 https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1351796314 Preview of cards + list of sources: https://computerlab.io/2023/06/08/chinese-software-engineering-flashcards/ https://computerlab.io/2023/06/08/chinese-software-engineeri...
- qwezxcrty 3y ago
  "lunzi"'s meaning is close to it's literal translation: wheel, as in Python Wheels and "reinventing wheels".
  - uranusjr 3y ago
    To be pedantic, Python wheels refer to cheese wheels, not as literal as you’d think.
- kwoff 3y ago
  huidu would be "canary deployment", I think
- tdba 3y ago
  I might say "preview" for huidu
- WirelessGigabit 3y ago
  Staged rollout?
- hulitu 3y ago
  > "lunzi" and "huidu" are both nice concise terms, would be nice to have an terse english equivalent "Huidu" looks like Microsoft's RC (release candidate). "lunzi" looks like UI/UX.
Dudester230602 3y ago
I guess copying doesn't stop at technology level.
Mindey 3y ago
Thanks for distilling the key aspects that Chinese biz-ops care about into 5 terms. In context of the post: lunzi (轮子) (lit. "cogs"/wheels) => ("techs") [elements of tech stack] huidu (灰度) (lit. (userbase) greyification) => rollout penetration chendian (沉淀) (lit. precipitation) => know-hows dapan (大盘) (lit. market, big dish) => analytics maidian (埋点) (lit. probes) => trackers # Clock analogy To explain "tech" to non-techies, somebody comes along with a term "cogs" to explain their importance to a clockwork, which user only sees the dial ("frontend") of. No "cogs" no clocks: no "techs" no products.
hulitu 3y ago
> Chendian is not a technical term, but it is commonly used in Chinese tech companies. It means consolidating learnings from past experience. This term definitely does not exists. On the contrary. Learnig from past experience is considered a sign of weakness.
fennecfoxy 3y ago
>Local hires in these global offices are becoming a norm So the offices should speak the local language, or a common language. Chinese terms won't matter at all unless Chinese is chosen as the common language. It's fortunate for a lot of English speakers that English is often chosen as a common language as a lot of people in tech from basically anywhere in the world learn it.

179 points by paradite 3y ago

This is interesting, always fun to see the same work in a different light and perspective. Btw Id say chendian is “retrospective”, which most tech companies do after projects but some do them regularly. I also worked at a trading firm that did retros for big trades

pySSK 3y ago
To me, it feels like “intuition” although it has different origins covers all of the resulting meanings.

caonidaye 3y ago

These terms are often referred to as 黑话. Just fancier jargons.

resolutebat 3y ago
Personally, I would reserve Black Speech (the literal meaning of 黑话) for VPs and the PR department. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Speech

zen928 3y ago

[flagged]

vore 3y ago
You know, when terms get transferred from other languages, they don't always retain the meaning from the original language and may undergo a semantic change in the destination language. For instance, nobody is going to characterize the modern usage of "demagogue" (originally just meaning "a popular leader" from Greek) as "purposefully misleading", and you shouldn't be doing that for these Chinese terms either. Also I don't know where you're getting this "intended cultural exclusion" thing from when that's what you yourself are doing in your comment by insisting your outsider interpretation of these terms in a different cultural context is correct. Thanks!
bluepod4 3y ago
So passive aggressive lol. It’s ironic that your username says “zen”. I’ve never even heard a native Chinese coworker use these terms before. It seems you haven’t either.
pySSK 3y ago
The only interesting and unique concept in this list is “lunzi”. Everything else is Sapir-Whorfian bullshit.
pyrale 3y ago
> I'll be sure to correct any chinese coworkers I have using these purposefully misleading phrases instead of the correct ones. Thanks! People communicating with other people using native language? We can't have that! Please revert to proper international languages like latin or esperanto immediately!
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  Or for those who wish to cross the lack of baggage of latin with the popularity of esperanto, there's Peano's (yes, that Peano) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latino_sine_flexione https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latino_sine_flexione ...

H8crilA 3y ago

What's unique here is that those terms are not transliterations of English terms. Which is what happens in most European languages. I'm guessing that apart from increased phonetic distance what also matters is the size of the language, i.e. the number of speakers. With more speakers it's more likely that someone will create a neat native term for a new concept that spreads successfully, instead of adopting a foreign one.

jareklupinski 3y ago
> As individual characters, “mai” means burying, and “dian” means points. The phrase “maidian” literally means “embedding points” or “burying seeds”. > It can be translated into tracking, tagging or user data analytics depending on the context. or "breadcrumbs", to highlight the similarity of stuffing someone's pockets with something that trickles out so they can be found later
- dragontamer 3y ago
  Breadcrumbs is arguably an English word that only makes sense after you read the Children's Story: Hansel and Gretel. Where Hansel and Gretel use breadcrumbs to find their way back home (except not really, cause the birds eat the crumbs and so they get lost). ------------- I've been told of various Chinese phrases that have similar story-driven meanings. Ex: "Pour more oil" is something to do with Sima Yi filling the torch of Zhuge Liang in the tomb. Sima Yi, a lifelong enemy of Zhuge Liang, is somewhat expected to defile the tomb, but instead honors his fallen enemy by pouring more oil and keeping the light going. I forgot what "pour more oil" means in Chinese, but its something to do with respect, even respect towards a sworn enemy. ------------ English has "Breadcrumbs", "Sour Grapes", "Break a leg"... Actually, English also has "Adding fuel to the fire", which is almost the opposite of the Chinese meaning.
  - vore 3y ago
    Unless you are referring to another term, "add oil" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/加油 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/加油) is just a term of encouragement, derived from the verb to refuel a car. I don't think it really has a connotation of respect.

gyrccc 3y ago

Fun read. I found "maidian" more intuitively understood as "embedding dots" instead of "embedding seeds", since tracking dots (or tracking pixels) are often used for analytics and "dian"'s literal meaning is "dot".

paradite 3y ago
Thanks for the suggestion. Updated the article to reflect this.

brown 3y ago

The domain name made me curious: http://10x.engineer/ http://10x.engineer/ "404 Not Found: 10x Engineers aren't real" Well played.

atleastoptimal 3y ago

I wonder if a shorter, catchier word means an idea is more commonplace, or a shorter catchier word can end up causing an idea to be applied more.

computerlab 3y ago

"lunzi" and "huidu" are both nice concise terms, would be nice to have an terse english equivalent. I am curious if knowing this sort of term is actually helpful for the average engineer working at an org like bytedance, or if things are siloed to the point that the eng orgs are basically separate with limited Chinese-English collaboration outside of certain management teams. PS: If you're interested in learning more Chinese tech terms, I've put together an Anki deck of 330+ cards with example sentences. Anki deck: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1351796314 https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1351796314 Preview of cards + list of sources: https://computerlab.io/2023/06/08/chinese-software-engineering-flashcards/ https://computerlab.io/2023/06/08/chinese-software-engineeri...

qwezxcrty 3y ago
"lunzi"'s meaning is close to it's literal translation: wheel, as in Python Wheels and "reinventing wheels".
- uranusjr 3y ago
  To be pedantic, Python wheels refer to cheese wheels, not as literal as you’d think.
kwoff 3y ago
huidu would be "canary deployment", I think
tdba 3y ago
I might say "preview" for huidu
WirelessGigabit 3y ago
Staged rollout?
hulitu 3y ago
> "lunzi" and "huidu" are both nice concise terms, would be nice to have an terse english equivalent "Huidu" looks like Microsoft's RC (release candidate). "lunzi" looks like UI/UX.

Dudester230602 3y ago

I guess copying doesn't stop at technology level.

Mindey 3y ago

Thanks for distilling the key aspects that Chinese biz-ops care about into 5 terms. In context of the post: lunzi (轮子) (lit. "cogs"/wheels) => ("techs") [elements of tech stack] huidu (灰度) (lit. (userbase) greyification) => rollout penetration chendian (沉淀) (lit. precipitation) => know-hows dapan (大盘) (lit. market, big dish) => analytics maidian (埋点) (lit. probes) => trackers # Clock analogy To explain "tech" to non-techies, somebody comes along with a term "cogs" to explain their importance to a clockwork, which user only sees the dial ("frontend") of. No "cogs" no clocks: no "techs" no products.

hulitu 3y ago

> Chendian is not a technical term, but it is commonly used in Chinese tech companies. It means consolidating learnings from past experience. This term definitely does not exists. On the contrary. Learnig from past experience is considered a sign of weakness.

fennecfoxy 3y ago

>Local hires in these global offices are becoming a norm So the offices should speak the local language, or a common language. Chinese terms won't matter at all unless Chinese is chosen as the common language. It's fortunate for a lot of English speakers that English is often chosen as a common language as a lot of people in tech from basically anywhere in the world learn it.