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It's entirely possible that this tech isn't yet ready for an expansion, but this article does a shit job of demonstrating that. The alternative is not perfect d

It's entirely possible that this tech isn't yet ready for an expansion, but this article does a shit job of demonstrating that. The alternative is not perfect drivers. The alternative is real human drivers who make all kinds of mistakes every day. I completely believe that these incidents are real, but without comparison to the actual alternative, it's useless information.

mlyle 3y ago
My guess is that the self-driving cars are a bit safer against injury/death per mile (we don't have enough data to know either way), but make stupid mistakes that inconvenience emergency services a lot more. But we don't know how to make human drivers any better, and self-driving cars are steadily improving (even if that's slowing down a little).
- LeafItAlone 3y ago
  > make stupid mistakes that inconvenience emergency services a lot more Maybe. But human drivers already do this way more than I would expect. I’ve seen emergency vehicles stopped and blocked by human drivers who are either paralyzed with uncertainty of what to do or selfishness (no way of knowing what’s going through their minds).
  - mlyle 3y ago
    They're both guesses based on incomplete data. But it sure looks like self-driving cars are still a fair bit worse on the second. The whole "fail safe" thing is great for overall safety but bad for doing something reasonable in these edge situations.
    - jonas21 3y ago
      > But it sure looks like self-driving cars are still a fair bit worse on the second. How so? We hear about the self-driving car incidents because they're required to write up reports whenever something happens (and it also makes for a good news story). That's not the case with human drivers.
      - mlyle 3y ago
        We're generating a whole lot more videos and fire department complaints about Cruise vehicles doing bad things at emergency scenes than you'd expect for such a small number of vehicles. It's also the least structured portion with the least clear rules than any other part of the driving task, so it stands to reason it would be worse.
        galeso 3y ago
        In 2022 there was about one formal complaint per week. Hopefully, there has been a reduction in 2023. My solution, would be to have free or low-cost self-driving (to keep the cost down) buses and ban cars including taxis. That should move a lot of people and clear out the streets.
jimlongton 3y ago
> The alternative is real human drivers who make all kinds of mistakes every day. From a European perspective I would say that in a city the real alternative is a functioning public transport system. Trams, light rail etc are infinitely safer and far cheaper than any form of car based system.

mlyle 3y ago

My guess is that the self-driving cars are a bit safer against injury/death per mile (we don't have enough data to know either way), but make stupid mistakes that inconvenience emergency services a lot more. But we don't know how to make human drivers any better, and self-driving cars are steadily improving (even if that's slowing down a little).

LeafItAlone 3y ago
> make stupid mistakes that inconvenience emergency services a lot more Maybe. But human drivers already do this way more than I would expect. I’ve seen emergency vehicles stopped and blocked by human drivers who are either paralyzed with uncertainty of what to do or selfishness (no way of knowing what’s going through their minds).
- mlyle 3y ago
  They're both guesses based on incomplete data. But it sure looks like self-driving cars are still a fair bit worse on the second. The whole "fail safe" thing is great for overall safety but bad for doing something reasonable in these edge situations.
  - jonas21 3y ago
    > But it sure looks like self-driving cars are still a fair bit worse on the second. How so? We hear about the self-driving car incidents because they're required to write up reports whenever something happens (and it also makes for a good news story). That's not the case with human drivers.
    - mlyle 3y ago
      We're generating a whole lot more videos and fire department complaints about Cruise vehicles doing bad things at emergency scenes than you'd expect for such a small number of vehicles. It's also the least structured portion with the least clear rules than any other part of the driving task, so it stands to reason it would be worse.
      - galeso 3y ago
        In 2022 there was about one formal complaint per week. Hopefully, there has been a reduction in 2023. My solution, would be to have free or low-cost self-driving (to keep the cost down) buses and ban cars including taxis. That should move a lot of people and clear out the streets.

jimlongton 3y ago

> The alternative is real human drivers who make all kinds of mistakes every day. From a European perspective I would say that in a city the real alternative is a functioning public transport system. Trams, light rail etc are infinitely safer and far cheaper than any form of car based system.