7 ms·

Calling the reddit mods landed gentry was a stroke of genius. Perfectly calibrated to get under the mods' skin and piss them off, while at the same time drivin

Calling the reddit mods landed gentry was a stroke of genius. Perfectly calibrated to get under the mods' skin and piss them off, while at the same time driving a wedge between them and the various commoners who already had innumerable personal grudges against the mods. It undermined the perceived legitimacy of the mods and provoked the mods to react emotionally at the same time, making the mods play the victim while simultaneously reminding the commoners who the real victims of the system really were.

PhasmaFelis 3y ago
I doubt there were many people who didn't already hate the mods who were swayed by an unelected dictator gabbling about the importance of democracy.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  The point was to remind the moderators that they aren't the democratic leaders representing the will of users as they framed themselves to be. Some mods are well liked but a great many of them are widely hated and know they would lose elections. Nobody mistakes the King for a democratic leader, even when he threatens the mods with elections. Nobody thinks even for an instant that Spez might let his users vote him out, Spez knows it too. He isn't pretending to be democratic, he's making an overt power play by proposing elections for those under him but not himself.
  - worrycue 3y ago
    I wouldn't say mods are unelected. Readers basically vote by visiting the subreddit they mod. If a bunch of mods become too much of a problem, you can just "leave the country". If enough people leave, those mods will just be dictators of an empty subreddit.
    - tomohelix 3y ago
      You can't "leave the country" for the large default subs. That kind of argument doesn't scale well into the millions+ subs where even if every mods on that board being a dick to 2-3 people a day, they would still need years to make the current population of user to get noticeably affected. And because they are basically the default subs, their new users make up for whoever is leaving anyway. The mods for those big subs are literally untouchable and can do whatever they want, with no accountability.
      - TeMPOraL 3y ago
        What presumably scales well with subreddit size is the amount of spam and abuse moderators have to deal with. So if, on a million+ sub, they manage to only "be a dick to 2-3 people a day", and the subreddit otherwise isn't rapidly bleeding users due to an onslaught of trolls and spammers - I'd say the mods are doing a goddamn great job. It's not like bad actors keep themselves away.
zouhair 3y ago
The thing is if the mods stopped modding the site will crumble and fast.
- riffic 3y ago
  moderation is effectively unpaid voluntary labor and the worst subreddit are the ones with absentee moderation. over moderation is just as bad too. the best moderation is human, engaged, and flexible.
  - hospitalJail 3y ago
    >Unpaid you are doing it wrong. You 'curate' in favor of your advertisers. /r/eatcheapandhealthy has some relationship with Leanne Brown. They let that website's marketers astroturf + they link on the sidebar. On the bright side, HN doesn't hide that they have perverse incentives, they just pretend that astroturfing doesnt exist.
    - kelipso 3y ago
      Yeah, you have an audience primed for buying your product, plus the fairly gullible nature of your audience who tend to believe whatever is posted in the comments, it's ideal for advertisers and they're certainly taking advantage. But it doesn't look like reddit is benefiting from any of this. Contrast this to facebook, which has managed to squeeze money from advertisers under a somewhat similar setting.
      - mcpackieh 3y ago
        > Yeah, you have an audience primed for buying your product, plus the fairly gullible nature of your audience who tend to believe whatever is posted in the comments, it's ideal for advertisers and they're certainly taking advantage. This is why I laugh when people say they include site:reddit.com in their web searches for product reviews. You may as well read amazon reviews; what you're seeing is very likely curated by somebody with a commercial interest in the thing. > But it doesn't look like reddit is benefiting from any of this. Contrast this to facebook, which has managed to squeeze money from advertisers under a somewhat similar setting. This has always been reddit's biggest problem; it's cheaper and more effective to astroturf or buy moderators than to buy ads from reddit. Companies that buy ads from reddit are chumps, they should be taking over subreddits instead. The rate of return is far superior.
seanhunter 3y ago
No it wasn't at all, as it just highlights how completely arbitrary his role in the whole thing is. If mods are landed gentry then spez is a monarch. Unelected, unaccountable to the populace and completely out of touch with their concerns (even more so than the "landed gentry").
- savanaly 3y ago
  Yeah but who does a real life peasant loathe more? A distant never seen monarch or the landlord with their boot on their throat every day?
  - both 3y ago
    Why not both?
  - arcatech 3y ago
    Is your point that you think redditors are more upset with the mods than spez?
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      In the same way some people may be mad at Trump but more mad at an abusive parent, yes. Maybe Trump even personally influenced that parent to be what they are today, but I don't think that it's a controversial statement to suggest that many people can't properly scale powers and chains of responsibility in their heads. Even if they do, it may not matter. One is doing immediate, local damage and you'll probably never be in a state to singlehandedly usurp Trump (ignoring for a fact that crow eating is imminent).better to deal with the local problem even if we could objectively agree that Trump has done more damage to a society.
ummonk 3y ago
Not sure how many users see it that way. I've always been annoyed with first-mover mods having perpetual control over subreddits (it's especially bad for e.g. some reddits named after countries, which are controlled either by anglocized liberals out of touch with the general public, or worse, sexpats). But it makes me dislike Steve Huffman all the more when he only brings up the issue of out of control mods when they're doing a protest over a legitimate grievance.
dredmorbius 3y ago
Hard disagree: it's transparent projection and manipulation. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36363741 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36363741>
mr_sturd 3y ago
You can't be landed gentry if the "land" you moderate is leased to you by Reddit itself.
- paulmd 3y ago
  Lol, you think nobles' landholds weren't tenured by the consent and commission of the king? It's just like being a commissioned military officer, you serve at the pleasure of the President and if you end up being a shitter you're gone and they'll replace you with someone else. Nobility was literally medieval commissions.
9935c101ab17a66 3y ago
I’m astounded you see it as a stroke of genius. Reddit may weather this storm, but spez made it worse at every turn. If their initial goal really was killing third-party clients, there are so many other ways they could have done it without astronomical levels of negative attention. The “landed gentry” sound bite made it to sites like TechCrunch and the verge — not a good look for Reddit’s IPO.

PhasmaFelis 3y ago

I doubt there were many people who didn't already hate the mods who were swayed by an unelected dictator gabbling about the importance of democracy.

mcpackieh 3y ago
The point was to remind the moderators that they aren't the democratic leaders representing the will of users as they framed themselves to be. Some mods are well liked but a great many of them are widely hated and know they would lose elections. Nobody mistakes the King for a democratic leader, even when he threatens the mods with elections. Nobody thinks even for an instant that Spez might let his users vote him out, Spez knows it too. He isn't pretending to be democratic, he's making an overt power play by proposing elections for those under him but not himself.
- worrycue 3y ago
  I wouldn't say mods are unelected. Readers basically vote by visiting the subreddit they mod. If a bunch of mods become too much of a problem, you can just "leave the country". If enough people leave, those mods will just be dictators of an empty subreddit.
  - tomohelix 3y ago
    You can't "leave the country" for the large default subs. That kind of argument doesn't scale well into the millions+ subs where even if every mods on that board being a dick to 2-3 people a day, they would still need years to make the current population of user to get noticeably affected. And because they are basically the default subs, their new users make up for whoever is leaving anyway. The mods for those big subs are literally untouchable and can do whatever they want, with no accountability.
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      What presumably scales well with subreddit size is the amount of spam and abuse moderators have to deal with. So if, on a million+ sub, they manage to only "be a dick to 2-3 people a day", and the subreddit otherwise isn't rapidly bleeding users due to an onslaught of trolls and spammers - I'd say the mods are doing a goddamn great job. It's not like bad actors keep themselves away.

zouhair 3y ago

The thing is if the mods stopped modding the site will crumble and fast.

riffic 3y ago
moderation is effectively unpaid voluntary labor and the worst subreddit are the ones with absentee moderation. over moderation is just as bad too. the best moderation is human, engaged, and flexible.
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  >Unpaid you are doing it wrong. You 'curate' in favor of your advertisers. /r/eatcheapandhealthy has some relationship with Leanne Brown. They let that website's marketers astroturf + they link on the sidebar. On the bright side, HN doesn't hide that they have perverse incentives, they just pretend that astroturfing doesnt exist.
  - kelipso 3y ago
    Yeah, you have an audience primed for buying your product, plus the fairly gullible nature of your audience who tend to believe whatever is posted in the comments, it's ideal for advertisers and they're certainly taking advantage. But it doesn't look like reddit is benefiting from any of this. Contrast this to facebook, which has managed to squeeze money from advertisers under a somewhat similar setting.
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      > Yeah, you have an audience primed for buying your product, plus the fairly gullible nature of your audience who tend to believe whatever is posted in the comments, it's ideal for advertisers and they're certainly taking advantage. This is why I laugh when people say they include site:reddit.com in their web searches for product reviews. You may as well read amazon reviews; what you're seeing is very likely curated by somebody with a commercial interest in the thing. > But it doesn't look like reddit is benefiting from any of this. Contrast this to facebook, which has managed to squeeze money from advertisers under a somewhat similar setting. This has always been reddit's biggest problem; it's cheaper and more effective to astroturf or buy moderators than to buy ads from reddit. Companies that buy ads from reddit are chumps, they should be taking over subreddits instead. The rate of return is far superior.

seanhunter 3y ago

No it wasn't at all, as it just highlights how completely arbitrary his role in the whole thing is. If mods are landed gentry then spez is a monarch. Unelected, unaccountable to the populace and completely out of touch with their concerns (even more so than the "landed gentry").

savanaly 3y ago
Yeah but who does a real life peasant loathe more? A distant never seen monarch or the landlord with their boot on their throat every day?
- both 3y ago
  Why not both?
- arcatech 3y ago
  Is your point that you think redditors are more upset with the mods than spez?
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    In the same way some people may be mad at Trump but more mad at an abusive parent, yes. Maybe Trump even personally influenced that parent to be what they are today, but I don't think that it's a controversial statement to suggest that many people can't properly scale powers and chains of responsibility in their heads. Even if they do, it may not matter. One is doing immediate, local damage and you'll probably never be in a state to singlehandedly usurp Trump (ignoring for a fact that crow eating is imminent).better to deal with the local problem even if we could objectively agree that Trump has done more damage to a society.

ummonk 3y ago

Not sure how many users see it that way. I've always been annoyed with first-mover mods having perpetual control over subreddits (it's especially bad for e.g. some reddits named after countries, which are controlled either by anglocized liberals out of touch with the general public, or worse, sexpats). But it makes me dislike Steve Huffman all the more when he only brings up the issue of out of control mods when they're doing a protest over a legitimate grievance.

dredmorbius 3y ago

Hard disagree: it's transparent projection and manipulation. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36363741 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36363741>

mr_sturd 3y ago

You can't be landed gentry if the "land" you moderate is leased to you by Reddit itself.

paulmd 3y ago
Lol, you think nobles' landholds weren't tenured by the consent and commission of the king? It's just like being a commissioned military officer, you serve at the pleasure of the President and if you end up being a shitter you're gone and they'll replace you with someone else. Nobility was literally medieval commissions.

9935c101ab17a66 3y ago

I’m astounded you see it as a stroke of genius. Reddit may weather this storm, but spez made it worse at every turn. If their initial goal really was killing third-party clients, there are so many other ways they could have done it without astronomical levels of negative attention. The “landed gentry” sound bite made it to sites like TechCrunch and the verge — not a good look for Reddit’s IPO.