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I struggle to see the link between the drama at Reddit and what you’re discussing. I don’t think I agree it’s a dominant issue for Twitter either, although Elo

I struggle to see the link between the drama at Reddit and what you’re discussing. I don’t think I agree it’s a dominant issue for Twitter either, although Elon has attempted to frame it as such.

mandmandam 3y ago
Thinking about it, there may actually be a strong link. Reddit spent the last few years badgering mods into "combating misinformation". A war against an 'enemy' is an 'easy' way to get people in line. For example, the science sub banned people for linking an official EU recommendation against more than 4 vaccines, or for questioning the natural origin theory. That's not science; it's antithetical to science. Repeat this at scale, over millions of users, tens of thousands of subs, thousands of links, hundreds of concepts, over years; all powered and amplified by LLM powered bots and shadowy PR teams. Complicit mods, those who didn't give much of a toss about free speech or independent thought, were selected for and elevated during this process. Meanwhile, users and moderators who didn't like the idea of censoring alternate and legitimate viewpoints have been leaving / shadowbanned / marginalized for the past couple years. Would the resistance of Reddit users and mods have been stronger without the above circumstances? I think it actually made a huge difference. Reddit today is far worse than Reddit 4 years ago. Reddit tomorrow will be exponentially worse again, I have no doubt. The Corona "misinformation war" has been a large factor in that.
- cheaprentalyeti 3y ago
  You don't need to control the moderators to control the moderators. You need to control the moderators to control the readership at large.
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  I doubt even 1% of mods felt that was relevant their subreddits
goldenchrome 3y ago
Perhaps you didn’t have controversial views in the past 3 years. Ideas that one was banned for as recently as last year under the umbrella of misinformation are now acceptable and even common knowledge in some cases. That’s real mass suppression of discourse. This has an effect on social networks. (Edit: the suppression continues. The original thread is flagged right now. It said the campaign against “misinformation” led to the crazy situation on Reddit and Twitter that we have today.) Think of it like a seismograph [0]. A violent swing in one direction is proceeded by a violent swing in the other direction. We’re living through the big swings right now. I think it’s reductive to blame a single person. The people at the top are usually vessels for the people’s energy anyways. That’s why running these institutions is so hard, because you constantly feel powerless even though you’re responsible for making all the decisions. We should find ways to settle each other, and I think that starts with setting ourselves and those close to us like our family and friends. The world is a bit shaky! [0] https://www.mtu.edu/geo/community/seismology/learn/seismology-study/images/p-wave-s-wave-vertical800.jpg https://www.mtu.edu/geo/community/seismology/learn/seismolog...
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  Ok but that’s not relevant to what’s going on
  - goldenchrome 3y ago
    It is, because people’s emotional states are deeper and broader than any particular issue. If I’m upset about one thing I’m upset about everything.
- bigbillheck 3y ago
  I have multiple controversial views that would get me banned from places and you don't see me going around complaining about being silenced.

mandmandam 3y ago

Thinking about it, there may actually be a strong link. Reddit spent the last few years badgering mods into "combating misinformation". A war against an 'enemy' is an 'easy' way to get people in line. For example, the science sub banned people for linking an official EU recommendation against more than 4 vaccines, or for questioning the natural origin theory. That's not science; it's antithetical to science. Repeat this at scale, over millions of users, tens of thousands of subs, thousands of links, hundreds of concepts, over years; all powered and amplified by LLM powered bots and shadowy PR teams. Complicit mods, those who didn't give much of a toss about free speech or independent thought, were selected for and elevated during this process. Meanwhile, users and moderators who didn't like the idea of censoring alternate and legitimate viewpoints have been leaving / shadowbanned / marginalized for the past couple years. Would the resistance of Reddit users and mods have been stronger without the above circumstances? I think it actually made a huge difference. Reddit today is far worse than Reddit 4 years ago. Reddit tomorrow will be exponentially worse again, I have no doubt. The Corona "misinformation war" has been a large factor in that.

cheaprentalyeti 3y ago
You don't need to control the moderators to control the moderators. You need to control the moderators to control the readership at large.
jncfhnb 3y ago
I doubt even 1% of mods felt that was relevant their subreddits

goldenchrome 3y ago

Perhaps you didn’t have controversial views in the past 3 years. Ideas that one was banned for as recently as last year under the umbrella of misinformation are now acceptable and even common knowledge in some cases. That’s real mass suppression of discourse. This has an effect on social networks. (Edit: the suppression continues. The original thread is flagged right now. It said the campaign against “misinformation” led to the crazy situation on Reddit and Twitter that we have today.) Think of it like a seismograph [0]. A violent swing in one direction is proceeded by a violent swing in the other direction. We’re living through the big swings right now. I think it’s reductive to blame a single person. The people at the top are usually vessels for the people’s energy anyways. That’s why running these institutions is so hard, because you constantly feel powerless even though you’re responsible for making all the decisions. We should find ways to settle each other, and I think that starts with setting ourselves and those close to us like our family and friends. The world is a bit shaky! [0] https://www.mtu.edu/geo/community/seismology/learn/seismology-study/images/p-wave-s-wave-vertical800.jpg https://www.mtu.edu/geo/community/seismology/learn/seismolog...

jncfhnb 3y ago
Ok but that’s not relevant to what’s going on
- goldenchrome 3y ago
  It is, because people’s emotional states are deeper and broader than any particular issue. If I’m upset about one thing I’m upset about everything.
bigbillheck 3y ago
I have multiple controversial views that would get me banned from places and you don't see me going around complaining about being silenced.