6 ms·

I'd love any major competition to Android & iOS. Microsoft is resurgent these days, can I get my windows phone back?

by rr808 3y ago

glogla 3y ago
Interesting idea. On one hand, I think the world's attitude towards the tech companies has changed sufficiently that Google's "sinking Windows Phone by making Gmail and Youtube not work on it" trick might not work out for them this time. On the other hand, given the sorry state of Windows - all the privacy issues, integrated ads, forced upgrades, whatever else - the Windows Phone would probably end up being terrible experience.
- lockhouse 3y ago
  Gmail was usable on Windows Phone in the built-in mail app, YouTube had some okay third party apps, but in my opinion what really killed Windows Phone was not having Google Maps. People underestimate how critical this app is. Why do you think Apple created their own mapping app out of nowhere? They were terrified that Google could turn off the switch and cripple iOS overnight after watching Windows Phone wither on the vine. There were additional things that caused Windows Phone to fail, but I really feel Google Maps was the first nail in the coffin.
pavlov 3y ago
Microsoft itself is an Android vendor these days: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-duo-2/9408kgxp4xjl https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-duo-2/9408kgxp4xjl Maybe there’s a long game here where the Surface line will become all-Windows one day again.
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  Microsoft did partner up with Amazon to provide Windows users with Android apps. It's not entirely unimaginable that the Amazon Store + Bing Maps + Outlook + Edge + OneDrive + Office can become an alternative to Google Play + Google Maps + Gmail + Chrome + Drive + Docs.
- kotaKat 3y ago
  If I recall correctly, the Surface Duo was supposed to be a Windows device (hence the odd selections like native UEFI and lack of certain hardware that would be on a contemporary Android device in the same class eg NFC). Microsoft was getting frustrated they couldn't get a good Windows experience on the metal and ended up contracting Movial, a software/embedded engineering firm, that they ended up partially acquiring to basically accelerate the Android port to the hardware and get it shipped. https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-acquires-the-surface-duo-development-team-from-movial/ https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-acquires-the-surface-duo-d... At the same time they were rushing the half-baked Android release out to the Duo they were all together working on what they actually wanted to ship in the Duo 2. (I was a Day 1 Duo user. I promptly returned it only two months into the ownership experience.)
faraggi 3y ago
Absolutely but I'd hate for it to be windows. I'd love a good, OSS Linux phone.
- kwanbix 3y ago
  Isn't Android good OSS Linux?
  - ajsnigrutin 3y ago
    Google is slowly cripling everything opensource and replacing it with its own closed source stuff. Many, many apps won't run without google blobs on the phone and it's all by design.
    - arsome 3y ago
      You can always swap those our with other apps from f-droid or something though and if you're willing to run an open source phone you're largely going to be dealing with the same problems in that department - lack of apps. And that's not to mention MicroG which makes many such apps work anyways.
      - ajsnigrutin 3y ago
        This is true for eg. a browser, alarm app and an irc client. If you want banking apps to work, you're fucked. Even getting some of the mainstream social network and chat apps to work without google play services is a pain.
        CuriousCosmic 3y ago
        > If you want banking apps to work, you're fucked. Even getting some of the mainstream social network and chat apps to work without google play services is a pain. GrapheneOS seems to do pretty well with this. It is a bit more involved and you have to check the docs but you can generally get banking apps to work just fine.
    - 3y ago
ekianjo 3y ago
> Microsoft is resurgent these days, Where is it resurging?
lockhouse 3y ago
Windows Mobile the OS was so good. What let it down was that it was lacking many critical apps.
- 7thaccount 3y ago
  Never used Windows Mobile, but WindowsPhone 7 & 8 were great. Moving to Android was a major step town in ergonomics for me.
  - lockhouse 3y ago
    Once I learned that Android was supposed to be a BlackBerry OS clone that got pivoted at the last minute in a panic to compete with iOS it all makes sense.
- xp84 3y ago
  Hypothetical: now that the web technologies are so much more powerful than they were 10 years ago, wouldn’t we all be much better off if most things ceased to be “Apps” anyway and became websites? The interesting thing I see is that most companies that ship a Mac app (that isn’t a game) now ship a web app in a thin Electron wrapper. And even though at least on iOS things seem slightly less HTML-ish, nobody uses any standard controls/UI anymore anyway, because everything must be branded and distinctive. I would kind of love to have a few competing OSs which were each supportable by essentially a checkbox in the cross-platform mobile app tooling people already seem to be using.
  - CyberDildonics 3y ago
    I don't know why you were downvoted, you are absolutely right. Lots of apps could be web pages and they would be tiny and have much better control of permissions and updates. Apple knows this which is why they try to make sure it doesn't happen and threaten their app store.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  Microsoft didn't help by resetting the ecosystem 3 times with backwards-incompatible changes. Windows Phone 7 wasn't compatible with earlier Windows Mobile apps, Windows Phone 8 wasn't compatible with WP7, and Windows 10 wasn't compatible with WP8.
samstave 3y ago
What you don't want a Facebook Phone? But it had that nice littel round LCD on the front to show your face icon for anyone calling you!

I'd love any major competition to Android & iOS. Microsoft is resurgent these days, can I get my windows phone back?

by rr808 3y ago

I'd love any major competition to Android & iOS. Microsoft is resurgent these days, can I get my windows phone back?

Interesting idea. On one hand, I think the world's attitude towards the tech companies has changed sufficiently that Google's "sinking Windows Phone by making Gmail and Youtube not work on it" trick might not work out for them this time. On the other hand, given the sorry state of Windows - all the privacy issues, integrated ads, forced upgrades, whatever else - the Windows Phone would probably end up being terrible experience.

lockhouse 3y ago
Gmail was usable on Windows Phone in the built-in mail app, YouTube had some okay third party apps, but in my opinion what really killed Windows Phone was not having Google Maps. People underestimate how critical this app is. Why do you think Apple created their own mapping app out of nowhere? They were terrified that Google could turn off the switch and cripple iOS overnight after watching Windows Phone wither on the vine. There were additional things that caused Windows Phone to fail, but I really feel Google Maps was the first nail in the coffin.

pavlov 3y ago

Microsoft itself is an Android vendor these days: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-duo-2/9408kgxp4xjl https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-duo-2/9408kgxp4xjl Maybe there’s a long game here where the Surface line will become all-Windows one day again.

jeroenhd 3y ago
Microsoft did partner up with Amazon to provide Windows users with Android apps. It's not entirely unimaginable that the Amazon Store + Bing Maps + Outlook + Edge + OneDrive + Office can become an alternative to Google Play + Google Maps + Gmail + Chrome + Drive + Docs.
kotaKat 3y ago
If I recall correctly, the Surface Duo was supposed to be a Windows device (hence the odd selections like native UEFI and lack of certain hardware that would be on a contemporary Android device in the same class eg NFC). Microsoft was getting frustrated they couldn't get a good Windows experience on the metal and ended up contracting Movial, a software/embedded engineering firm, that they ended up partially acquiring to basically accelerate the Android port to the hardware and get it shipped. https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-acquires-the-surface-duo-development-team-from-movial/ https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-acquires-the-surface-duo-d... At the same time they were rushing the half-baked Android release out to the Duo they were all together working on what they actually wanted to ship in the Duo 2. (I was a Day 1 Duo user. I promptly returned it only two months into the ownership experience.)

faraggi 3y ago

Absolutely but I'd hate for it to be windows. I'd love a good, OSS Linux phone.

kwanbix 3y ago
Isn't Android good OSS Linux?
- ajsnigrutin 3y ago
  Google is slowly cripling everything opensource and replacing it with its own closed source stuff. Many, many apps won't run without google blobs on the phone and it's all by design.
  - arsome 3y ago
    You can always swap those our with other apps from f-droid or something though and if you're willing to run an open source phone you're largely going to be dealing with the same problems in that department - lack of apps. And that's not to mention MicroG which makes many such apps work anyways.
    - ajsnigrutin 3y ago
      This is true for eg. a browser, alarm app and an irc client. If you want banking apps to work, you're fucked. Even getting some of the mainstream social network and chat apps to work without google play services is a pain.
      - CuriousCosmic 3y ago
        > If you want banking apps to work, you're fucked. Even getting some of the mainstream social network and chat apps to work without google play services is a pain. GrapheneOS seems to do pretty well with this. It is a bit more involved and you have to check the docs but you can generally get banking apps to work just fine.
  - 3y ago

ekianjo 3y ago

> Microsoft is resurgent these days, Where is it resurging?

lockhouse 3y ago

Windows Mobile the OS was so good. What let it down was that it was lacking many critical apps.

7thaccount 3y ago
Never used Windows Mobile, but WindowsPhone 7 & 8 were great. Moving to Android was a major step town in ergonomics for me.
- lockhouse 3y ago
  Once I learned that Android was supposed to be a BlackBerry OS clone that got pivoted at the last minute in a panic to compete with iOS it all makes sense.
xp84 3y ago
Hypothetical: now that the web technologies are so much more powerful than they were 10 years ago, wouldn’t we all be much better off if most things ceased to be “Apps” anyway and became websites? The interesting thing I see is that most companies that ship a Mac app (that isn’t a game) now ship a web app in a thin Electron wrapper. And even though at least on iOS things seem slightly less HTML-ish, nobody uses any standard controls/UI anymore anyway, because everything must be branded and distinctive. I would kind of love to have a few competing OSs which were each supportable by essentially a checkbox in the cross-platform mobile app tooling people already seem to be using.
- CyberDildonics 3y ago
  I don't know why you were downvoted, you are absolutely right. Lots of apps could be web pages and they would be tiny and have much better control of permissions and updates. Apple knows this which is why they try to make sure it doesn't happen and threaten their app store.
Nextgrid 3y ago
Microsoft didn't help by resetting the ecosystem 3 times with backwards-incompatible changes. Windows Phone 7 wasn't compatible with earlier Windows Mobile apps, Windows Phone 8 wasn't compatible with WP7, and Windows 10 wasn't compatible with WP8.

samstave 3y ago

What you don't want a Facebook Phone? But it had that nice littel round LCD on the front to show your face icon for anyone calling you!