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There are already tons of legal forms of escapism, which is exactly what psychedelics are, so I fail to see why it's so imperative that they become more sociall

There are already tons of legal forms of escapism, which is exactly what psychedelics are, so I fail to see why it's so imperative that they become more socially accepted. I've also tried my fair share of psychedelics and find it completely laughable that people try to raise them up as these spiritual or therapeutic tools. Just because they make you hallucinate does not mean they "open up your mind" or make you think any more critically than alcohol or other drugs.

oslem 3y ago
Are there alternate tools that you believe can achieve improved critical thinking or “opening up your mind.”
cthalupa 3y ago
I have never found psychedelics to be more than an enjoyable way to spend an evening or weekend, but a large body of psychiatrists and medical researchers take the potential of psychedelics as a a therapeutic tool quite seriously and there is scientific research to support this position. If you find it completely laughable, I would hope you have some sort of significant scientific evidence to support that position. As for the spiritual bit, I don't understand how you could begin to argue this point. A spiritual experience is subjective and dependent on the person - if people can find meditation, walks in nature, staring up at the stars, listening to music, reading a book, etc., to be spiritual experiences, why in the world couldn't a trip on LSD do the same?
themoonisachees 3y ago
They are being raised as therapeutic tools because research shows that empirically, psychedelics do help with some mental issues, and sometimes in better ways than conventional medicine. They need to become more socially accepted because current legislation bans a lot of research on them under cover of the war on drugs, an that legislation can be changed if public sentiment changes. If tobacco was discovered to be good for say, depression, it'd be stupid to ban researchers from acquiring any under the guise of "tobacco cause cancer so nobody should be allowed to buy it ever". On top of that, drugs are absolutely winning the war on drugs, because the current policy of punishing users for either having fun on their own time or being addicts who literally will die if they stop is absurd. There is a middle ground between throwing addicts in prison and selling heroin in cafes, and that comes with mental help and social assistance to those in positions where hard drugs and dependance on them is preferable to experiencing life sober.
shlant 3y ago
> I've also tried my fair share of psychedelics and find it completely laughable that people try to raise them up as these spiritual or therapeutic tools. Just because they make you hallucinate does not mean they "open up your mind" or make you think any more critically than alcohol or other drugs. "I didn't have the experience some people talk about so I will ridicule and discount all those perspectives" Cool. Great contribution, thanks. It's too bad you didn't have those experiences people talk about because maybe it would have helped check your ego.
standardUser 3y ago
It sounds like you've had very boring and uninteresting psychedelic trips. It's kind of laughable to even think that any benefits come from the "hallucinating" aspect of the trip, as you imply.
vlasev 3y ago
The Venn diagram for psychedelics include escapism, but it includes a lot more as well. Psychedelics can be a powerful tool, and for all the good that they can bring you, they can also wreck your shit for a while. It really depends on who you are, what context you take them in and what you do afterwards. This applies more broadly to other substances as well, even ones not typically seen as psychedelic, like alcohol and caffeine. There can be therapeutic effects with those as well. For example, if you're feeling really stuck at a certain point in life and you take the time to get drunk by yourself and listen to some enjoyable music, you can end up being really honest with yourself and become aware of what you need to do to get unstuck. But you can also get drunk at a party and make a number of bad decisions that you'll regret later. It be like that when it comes to psychedelics as well. Imho, the main benefits of psychedelics are two-fold. One has to do with subjective experience - psychedelics can simply provide you with a different experience, a different point of view. This can help you see that there are other possibilities for the narratives you tell yourself and this can be beneficial. Depression is a good example here - it's super easy to forget what it's like to not be depressed and psychedelics can provide a temporary clarity about it that can later help get out of the depressive state. The temporary difference in point of view can also cultivate more skepticism in general. This is especially true for certain "truths" we hold about ourselves (like insecurities, inadequacies, fears). Psychedelics can open us up to consider different causes for our behaviours and this can be therapeutic as well. But I gotta say, they can also make you lose yourself within a new false narrative, so skepticism is a powerful ally here. The other benefit simply has to do with neuroplasticity. Most psychedelics open up a dose-dependent learning period that lasts from days to weeks. That's why something like a shroom trip doesn't really end until a few weeks after the shroom is ingested, when that learning period eventually closes. Even if you didn't experience anything spiritually or psychologically significant in the acute phase of the trip, you can still benefit greatly from the learning window that opens up afterwards. It's a good time to try a new activity, do some self-reflection, change a habit, have a therapy session or two, connect with people on a deeper level. You might be surprised by your learning abilities after a shroom trip. But I gotta say, all this also opens you up to learning "bad things" too, so again, skepticism helps here. Yeah, you can do all that without psychedelics as well, but there are a couple of problems here - you might be unaware that there's something you can actually do, and even if you are, you might not know what to look at or how to change your point of view about it. Psychedelics can provide a strong emotional and psychological example that can guide you in that process.

oslem 3y ago

Are there alternate tools that you believe can achieve improved critical thinking or “opening up your mind.”

cthalupa 3y ago

I have never found psychedelics to be more than an enjoyable way to spend an evening or weekend, but a large body of psychiatrists and medical researchers take the potential of psychedelics as a a therapeutic tool quite seriously and there is scientific research to support this position. If you find it completely laughable, I would hope you have some sort of significant scientific evidence to support that position. As for the spiritual bit, I don't understand how you could begin to argue this point. A spiritual experience is subjective and dependent on the person - if people can find meditation, walks in nature, staring up at the stars, listening to music, reading a book, etc., to be spiritual experiences, why in the world couldn't a trip on LSD do the same?

themoonisachees 3y ago

They are being raised as therapeutic tools because research shows that empirically, psychedelics do help with some mental issues, and sometimes in better ways than conventional medicine. They need to become more socially accepted because current legislation bans a lot of research on them under cover of the war on drugs, an that legislation can be changed if public sentiment changes. If tobacco was discovered to be good for say, depression, it'd be stupid to ban researchers from acquiring any under the guise of "tobacco cause cancer so nobody should be allowed to buy it ever". On top of that, drugs are absolutely winning the war on drugs, because the current policy of punishing users for either having fun on their own time or being addicts who literally will die if they stop is absurd. There is a middle ground between throwing addicts in prison and selling heroin in cafes, and that comes with mental help and social assistance to those in positions where hard drugs and dependance on them is preferable to experiencing life sober.

shlant 3y ago

> I've also tried my fair share of psychedelics and find it completely laughable that people try to raise them up as these spiritual or therapeutic tools. Just because they make you hallucinate does not mean they "open up your mind" or make you think any more critically than alcohol or other drugs. "I didn't have the experience some people talk about so I will ridicule and discount all those perspectives" Cool. Great contribution, thanks. It's too bad you didn't have those experiences people talk about because maybe it would have helped check your ego.

standardUser 3y ago

It sounds like you've had very boring and uninteresting psychedelic trips. It's kind of laughable to even think that any benefits come from the "hallucinating" aspect of the trip, as you imply.

vlasev 3y ago

The Venn diagram for psychedelics include escapism, but it includes a lot more as well. Psychedelics can be a powerful tool, and for all the good that they can bring you, they can also wreck your shit for a while. It really depends on who you are, what context you take them in and what you do afterwards. This applies more broadly to other substances as well, even ones not typically seen as psychedelic, like alcohol and caffeine. There can be therapeutic effects with those as well. For example, if you're feeling really stuck at a certain point in life and you take the time to get drunk by yourself and listen to some enjoyable music, you can end up being really honest with yourself and become aware of what you need to do to get unstuck. But you can also get drunk at a party and make a number of bad decisions that you'll regret later. It be like that when it comes to psychedelics as well. Imho, the main benefits of psychedelics are two-fold. One has to do with subjective experience - psychedelics can simply provide you with a different experience, a different point of view. This can help you see that there are other possibilities for the narratives you tell yourself and this can be beneficial. Depression is a good example here - it's super easy to forget what it's like to not be depressed and psychedelics can provide a temporary clarity about it that can later help get out of the depressive state. The temporary difference in point of view can also cultivate more skepticism in general. This is especially true for certain "truths" we hold about ourselves (like insecurities, inadequacies, fears). Psychedelics can open us up to consider different causes for our behaviours and this can be therapeutic as well. But I gotta say, they can also make you lose yourself within a new false narrative, so skepticism is a powerful ally here. The other benefit simply has to do with neuroplasticity. Most psychedelics open up a dose-dependent learning period that lasts from days to weeks. That's why something like a shroom trip doesn't really end until a few weeks after the shroom is ingested, when that learning period eventually closes. Even if you didn't experience anything spiritually or psychologically significant in the acute phase of the trip, you can still benefit greatly from the learning window that opens up afterwards. It's a good time to try a new activity, do some self-reflection, change a habit, have a therapy session or two, connect with people on a deeper level. You might be surprised by your learning abilities after a shroom trip. But I gotta say, all this also opens you up to learning "bad things" too, so again, skepticism helps here. Yeah, you can do all that without psychedelics as well, but there are a couple of problems here - you might be unaware that there's something you can actually do, and even if you are, you might not know what to look at or how to change your point of view about it. Psychedelics can provide a strong emotional and psychological example that can guide you in that process.