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While true, the estimated average IQ at Harvard is 142. IQ is highly associated with self-control and discipline.

p-e-w 3y ago
> IQ is highly associated with self-control and discipline. I'd like to see a citation for that, especially for the idea that the self-control/discipline associated with high IQs transfers over to non-academic aspects of life, which is what's in question here.
- DropInIn 3y ago
  I'm pretty sure they're conflating a higher likelihood of determining an action precluding risk factor prior to action with actual self control and discipline.... It's more just that the smarter you are the more likely you are to both recognize the existence of the risk factor as well as "do the math" before your impulses induce action.
- Gareth321 3y ago
  Here you go: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2614657/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2614657/ > Delay behavior in both sexes was also correlated positively with IQ and with Q-sort-derived indexes of ego resiliency and ego control. The relationship between ego control and delay behavior was particularly strong after both IQ and ego resiliency were partialled. These results were interpreted as reflecting the fundamental importance of both cognitive skillfulness and impulse control for adaptive delay behavior in situations that contain strong motivational inducements. This study doesn’t measure academic related delayed gratification. I’m surprised to be asked for a source. This has been settled science for decades.
meindnoch 3y ago
Estimated average IQ from SAT score. So it's bullshit. They just cram SAT prep non-stop with private tutors.
- Gareth321 3y ago
  > So it's bullshit. That’s quite the opinion. Do you have any evidence to back that up? Countless studies have found that SAT scores are highly correlated with intelligence. Both “g” and IQ, which are roughly equivalent for this context. For example: https://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf?origin=publication_detail https://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf?origin=... And here is another: http://www.iapsych.com/iqmr/koening2008.pdf http://www.iapsych.com/iqmr/koening2008.pdf
  - 411111111111111 3y ago
    I don't think anyone would argue otherwise, the controversy is that IQ test results can be increased significantly by training. But that discussion ultimately boils down to what intelligence really is... You either subscribe to the believe that it's essentially something you're born with or something that can be improved by training. IQ tests fundamentally cannot measure for the former definition, but I does a decent job for the latter.
    - Gareth321 3y ago
      The user I replied to is clearly arguing that SATs do not provide any correlation with IQ. They called the proposition “bullshit.” As for your question, g is very difficult to improve through training. Almost impossible in adulthood. The only studies I am aware of which indicate an ability to improve IQ score over time are those which allow participants to repeatedly take similar IQ tests. This enables the respondents to practise the type of question and answer faster and more accurately. Obviously this would produce an inaccurate result, over-estimating the intelligence of the individual. To draw parallels with the SAT, I see evidence that repeated attempts reveal gaps in one’s knowledge and skill, and these are prerequisites for the test. This permits the individual to study those areas and practise the kinds of skills required to improve their score. Given this, we should acknowledge that the SAT is not a perfect analogue for IQ tests, but in aggregate, they do yield striking correlation. To tie this to my premise above, it is highly likely that the average Harvard student has an above-average IQ.

> IQ is highly associated with self-control and discipline. I'd like to see a citation for that, especially for the idea that the self-control/discipline associated with high IQs transfers over to non-academic aspects of life, which is what's in question here.

DropInIn 3y ago
I'm pretty sure they're conflating a higher likelihood of determining an action precluding risk factor prior to action with actual self control and discipline.... It's more just that the smarter you are the more likely you are to both recognize the existence of the risk factor as well as "do the math" before your impulses induce action.
Gareth321 3y ago
Here you go: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2614657/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2614657/ > Delay behavior in both sexes was also correlated positively with IQ and with Q-sort-derived indexes of ego resiliency and ego control. The relationship between ego control and delay behavior was particularly strong after both IQ and ego resiliency were partialled. These results were interpreted as reflecting the fundamental importance of both cognitive skillfulness and impulse control for adaptive delay behavior in situations that contain strong motivational inducements. This study doesn’t measure academic related delayed gratification. I’m surprised to be asked for a source. This has been settled science for decades.

meindnoch 3y ago

Estimated average IQ from SAT score. So it's bullshit. They just cram SAT prep non-stop with private tutors.

Gareth321 3y ago
> So it's bullshit. That’s quite the opinion. Do you have any evidence to back that up? Countless studies have found that SAT scores are highly correlated with intelligence. Both “g” and IQ, which are roughly equivalent for this context. For example: https://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf?origin=publication_detail https://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf?origin=... And here is another: http://www.iapsych.com/iqmr/koening2008.pdf http://www.iapsych.com/iqmr/koening2008.pdf
- 411111111111111 3y ago
  I don't think anyone would argue otherwise, the controversy is that IQ test results can be increased significantly by training. But that discussion ultimately boils down to what intelligence really is... You either subscribe to the believe that it's essentially something you're born with or something that can be improved by training. IQ tests fundamentally cannot measure for the former definition, but I does a decent job for the latter.
  - Gareth321 3y ago
    The user I replied to is clearly arguing that SATs do not provide any correlation with IQ. They called the proposition “bullshit.” As for your question, g is very difficult to improve through training. Almost impossible in adulthood. The only studies I am aware of which indicate an ability to improve IQ score over time are those which allow participants to repeatedly take similar IQ tests. This enables the respondents to practise the type of question and answer faster and more accurately. Obviously this would produce an inaccurate result, over-estimating the intelligence of the individual. To draw parallels with the SAT, I see evidence that repeated attempts reveal gaps in one’s knowledge and skill, and these are prerequisites for the test. This permits the individual to study those areas and practise the kinds of skills required to improve their score. Given this, we should acknowledge that the SAT is not a perfect analogue for IQ tests, but in aggregate, they do yield striking correlation. To tie this to my premise above, it is highly likely that the average Harvard student has an above-average IQ.