3 ms·

Sounds like a crazy amount of work for an online forum.

dredmorbius 3y ago
I'm trying to understand: sending an email is "a crazy amount of work"? What is your proposed alternative? How would that impact upon HN's own operations and resource demands?
- system2 3y ago
  There could be a simple reporting function with a click of a button, type what's needed, then admin checks these reports from a simple page and take action. Way faster than sending an email from an email client, then opening it in another client, then going back to the website, login, check that specific issue with the copy/pasted links because it is in the email not in the reporting system. This is not 1990. All forum platforms have this function. (bb, vbulletin, discourse, etc.) I can't even understand why this is being discussed. :)
  - fomine3 3y ago
    It seems to a good barrier for not to overload mods. Only who really want to report send email to mod.
    - system2 3y ago
      Not a capability problem then, simply gatekeeping.
      - dredmorbius 3y ago
        No. Moderator time is a capacity limitation: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27398725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27398725> Throwing more messages (not necessarily signal) onto the queue likely won't help that. Keep in mind that spurious or abusive reports are frequent characteristics of such systems. Who precisely is being "gatekept" through a reliance on email? Even this highly-pseudonymous space alien cat replying to you now manages to get through that particular hurdle, and in fact, anyone, whether they have an HN account or not, who does have an email account (much of the online public) can at least in theory reach HN mods. So, say, if you happen to be some third party who's being affected, abused, misrepresented, etc., on HN, it's possible to reach moderators directly with no further site interactions required. Contrast with virtually all online ticketing or contact systems which otherwise mandate a site-specific account or profile.
    - dredmorbius 3y ago
      Some thoughts on this: - There's already a click-based interaction mechanism, the "flag" link. That's non-specific ("here be problems"), but also means that any type of issue can be reported with only a single mechanism and reporting flow. - Yes, a more complex workflow for issue reporting could be constructed. Those ... tend to be complicated, not be especially useful, often omit the specific concern the reporter has in mind, and if overly arduous, result in people simply selecting the first option and moving on. Such systems can also become ossified and/or brittle over time, where an email-based system is inherently flexible and adaptable. - Reporting links can also be abused by bots, web scrapers, and the rest, which means limiting them to registered members, and perhaps a subset of those (as is the case with HN's "flag" link). Email is the Universal Reporting Mechanism as I've noted in another comment on this thread. - Email is sufficiently non-structured to address a wide range of issues. The one standardisation I've been asked to provide is to include the specific item ID in the subject of the email. This lets mods pull up the item directly using macros written for that purpose. I suspect that often the issue is reasonably apparent on doing so. - I make extreme efforts to keep my standard-issue emails brief, clearly identify the post and source link, and suggest a remedy, all in consideration of moderator time. I suspect many other frequent reporters do likewise. Mods do respond typically within an hour to a day, and will often fix issues well before responding.

I'm trying to understand: sending an email is "a crazy amount of work"? What is your proposed alternative? How would that impact upon HN's own operations and resource demands?

system2 3y ago
There could be a simple reporting function with a click of a button, type what's needed, then admin checks these reports from a simple page and take action. Way faster than sending an email from an email client, then opening it in another client, then going back to the website, login, check that specific issue with the copy/pasted links because it is in the email not in the reporting system. This is not 1990. All forum platforms have this function. (bb, vbulletin, discourse, etc.) I can't even understand why this is being discussed. :)
- fomine3 3y ago
  It seems to a good barrier for not to overload mods. Only who really want to report send email to mod.
  - system2 3y ago
    Not a capability problem then, simply gatekeeping.
    - dredmorbius 3y ago
      No. Moderator time is a capacity limitation: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27398725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27398725> Throwing more messages (not necessarily signal) onto the queue likely won't help that. Keep in mind that spurious or abusive reports are frequent characteristics of such systems. Who precisely is being "gatekept" through a reliance on email? Even this highly-pseudonymous space alien cat replying to you now manages to get through that particular hurdle, and in fact, anyone, whether they have an HN account or not, who does have an email account (much of the online public) can at least in theory reach HN mods. So, say, if you happen to be some third party who's being affected, abused, misrepresented, etc., on HN, it's possible to reach moderators directly with no further site interactions required. Contrast with virtually all online ticketing or contact systems which otherwise mandate a site-specific account or profile.
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    Some thoughts on this: - There's already a click-based interaction mechanism, the "flag" link. That's non-specific ("here be problems"), but also means that any type of issue can be reported with only a single mechanism and reporting flow. - Yes, a more complex workflow for issue reporting could be constructed. Those ... tend to be complicated, not be especially useful, often omit the specific concern the reporter has in mind, and if overly arduous, result in people simply selecting the first option and moving on. Such systems can also become ossified and/or brittle over time, where an email-based system is inherently flexible and adaptable. - Reporting links can also be abused by bots, web scrapers, and the rest, which means limiting them to registered members, and perhaps a subset of those (as is the case with HN's "flag" link). Email is the Universal Reporting Mechanism as I've noted in another comment on this thread. - Email is sufficiently non-structured to address a wide range of issues. The one standardisation I've been asked to provide is to include the specific item ID in the subject of the email. This lets mods pull up the item directly using macros written for that purpose. I suspect that often the issue is reasonably apparent on doing so. - I make extreme efforts to keep my standard-issue emails brief, clearly identify the post and source link, and suggest a remedy, all in consideration of moderator time. I suspect many other frequent reporters do likewise. Mods do respond typically within an hour to a day, and will often fix issues well before responding.