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People didn’t leave because of the bad decisions. They left because Musk said he wanted “hardcore” people who’d work 80 hour weeks. Turns out masochism isn’t co

People didn’t leave because of the bad decisions. They left because Musk said he wanted “hardcore” people who’d work 80 hour weeks. Turns out masochism isn’t correlated with great engineering.

ineedasername 3y ago
I think there may be a disconnect between what Musk says and the reality on the ground. Enough so that I, given such a situation, would wait around a little bit to see how things played out before jumping ship. But as I said in my original comment, I’ve sprinted away from toxicity before, and will do so again if it becomes obvious.
- Timon3 3y ago
  If it was only that Elon had said it, I might agree. But he also had multiple rounds of layoffs (after lying every time and saying "this was the last!"). He had multiple horrible mandatory meetings forcing people to drop everything and fly over the country. He forced people to print out their code so he could review their work. Nobody good stays during ALL of this.
  - drzaiusx11 3y ago
    I wouldn't say nobody, there's likely folks held captive by H1B visas with limited options/mobility
    - Timon3 3y ago
      If you really want I can qualify my earlier statement, I thought it was obvious: GP wrote: > Enough so that I, given such a situation, would wait around a little bit to see how things played out before jumping ship. That means "nobody" is talking about the group of people who have the option of "waiting around a little bit to see how things played out before jumping ship". H1B visa holders aren't included in that earlier group, so I didn't think a further qualification is necessary.
    - Retric 3y ago
      H1B people can and do jump ship. The bigger issue was Twitter laid off so many people it was a poor time to look for a new job.
- MisterBastahrd 3y ago
  > I think there may be a disconnect between what Musk says and the reality on the ground. Which runs against every good piece of advice that has ever been uttered about leadership. Musk far overpaid for twitter because he wanted to be the center of attention and what better way to do that than to buy the network which gets the most attention from "important" people? He then took the Michael Jordan trope of "I never asked anyone to do anything I was unwilling to do" and tried to turn that into reality by sleeping in his office every once in a while. The problem with this sentiment is that the only employees who are going to stick around long-term in such a ridiculous working arrangement are those who either can't find jobs elsewhere or are terrified that they won't be able to find jobs elsewhere. So now you've got a highly toxic work environment full of people who are unconfident in their own abilities to get the work done, and Elon constantly pretend like he's some sort of business genius from the movies who just walks into a meeting, throws a bunch of turds on top of the agenda without having a firm grasp of anything, and storms off to light the next fire. It's fucking insane.
- pcthrowaway 3y ago
  > Enough so that I, given such a situation, would wait around a little bit to see how things played out before jumping ship. The twitter engineers were presented with an opportunity to jump ship and also get 3 months of severance. I think the rational ones, who had a choice took it, leaving employees who didn't consider it rationally, as well as employees on H1Bs who didn't have the luxury to quit without something else lined up
yieldcrv 3y ago
yeah its correlated with getting deported from the US if you lose your employer
- manuelabeledo 3y ago
  I bet that most, if not all, H1B visa holders working for Twitter, would be able to land a job pretty quickly if they wanted to.
  - morelisp 3y ago
    Individually yes. It's less clear what happens if Twitter is shedding hundreds of engineers at the same time many other companies are freezing hiring or letting people go.
- BurningFrog 3y ago
  H1Bs don't actually get deported for that.
  - habinero 3y ago
    Yes, they absolutely do. There are some serious penalties if you overstay your visa.
    - BurningFrog 3y ago
      In theory, yes. In practice, the immigration authorities have enforcement priorities, and deporting overstating H1B is very far from being one. As long as you don't cross a border, no one will come looking for you. Source, my immigration lawyer when I was in danger of overstaying my H1B.
  - Analemma_ 3y ago
    They absolutely do. I’m not sure why you’re posting this; it’s just demonstrably wrong.
    - 3y ago

ineedasername 3y ago

I think there may be a disconnect between what Musk says and the reality on the ground. Enough so that I, given such a situation, would wait around a little bit to see how things played out before jumping ship. But as I said in my original comment, I’ve sprinted away from toxicity before, and will do so again if it becomes obvious.

Timon3 3y ago
If it was only that Elon had said it, I might agree. But he also had multiple rounds of layoffs (after lying every time and saying "this was the last!"). He had multiple horrible mandatory meetings forcing people to drop everything and fly over the country. He forced people to print out their code so he could review their work. Nobody good stays during ALL of this.
- drzaiusx11 3y ago
  I wouldn't say nobody, there's likely folks held captive by H1B visas with limited options/mobility
  - Timon3 3y ago
    If you really want I can qualify my earlier statement, I thought it was obvious: GP wrote: > Enough so that I, given such a situation, would wait around a little bit to see how things played out before jumping ship. That means "nobody" is talking about the group of people who have the option of "waiting around a little bit to see how things played out before jumping ship". H1B visa holders aren't included in that earlier group, so I didn't think a further qualification is necessary.
  - Retric 3y ago
    H1B people can and do jump ship. The bigger issue was Twitter laid off so many people it was a poor time to look for a new job.
MisterBastahrd 3y ago
> I think there may be a disconnect between what Musk says and the reality on the ground. Which runs against every good piece of advice that has ever been uttered about leadership. Musk far overpaid for twitter because he wanted to be the center of attention and what better way to do that than to buy the network which gets the most attention from "important" people? He then took the Michael Jordan trope of "I never asked anyone to do anything I was unwilling to do" and tried to turn that into reality by sleeping in his office every once in a while. The problem with this sentiment is that the only employees who are going to stick around long-term in such a ridiculous working arrangement are those who either can't find jobs elsewhere or are terrified that they won't be able to find jobs elsewhere. So now you've got a highly toxic work environment full of people who are unconfident in their own abilities to get the work done, and Elon constantly pretend like he's some sort of business genius from the movies who just walks into a meeting, throws a bunch of turds on top of the agenda without having a firm grasp of anything, and storms off to light the next fire. It's fucking insane.
pcthrowaway 3y ago
> Enough so that I, given such a situation, would wait around a little bit to see how things played out before jumping ship. The twitter engineers were presented with an opportunity to jump ship and also get 3 months of severance. I think the rational ones, who had a choice took it, leaving employees who didn't consider it rationally, as well as employees on H1Bs who didn't have the luxury to quit without something else lined up

yieldcrv 3y ago

yeah its correlated with getting deported from the US if you lose your employer

manuelabeledo 3y ago
I bet that most, if not all, H1B visa holders working for Twitter, would be able to land a job pretty quickly if they wanted to.
- morelisp 3y ago
  Individually yes. It's less clear what happens if Twitter is shedding hundreds of engineers at the same time many other companies are freezing hiring or letting people go.
BurningFrog 3y ago
H1Bs don't actually get deported for that.
- habinero 3y ago
  Yes, they absolutely do. There are some serious penalties if you overstay your visa.
  - BurningFrog 3y ago
    In theory, yes. In practice, the immigration authorities have enforcement priorities, and deporting overstating H1B is very far from being one. As long as you don't cross a border, no one will come looking for you. Source, my immigration lawyer when I was in danger of overstaying my H1B.
- Analemma_ 3y ago
  They absolutely do. I’m not sure why you’re posting this; it’s just demonstrably wrong.
  - 3y ago