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Ooh, good idea. People can go build something against the Twitter API! Oh wait! I'm absolutely going to keep enjoying Musk's comeuppance. In this, consider me

Ooh, good idea. People can go build something against the Twitter API! Oh wait! I'm absolutely going to keep enjoying Musk's comeuppance. In this, consider me a traditionalist. As the Greek tragedies show, people have been enjoying the just punishment of hubris for thousands of years.

transcriptase 3y ago
You can relish in the idea of Twitter having technical issues as if it hurts Elon in some tangible way, but the fact is he could pull the plug on it tomorrow… simply shut Twitter down entirely. Take the entire value of the company as a personal loss, and give everyone working there $1m for their service. And still be the wealthiest individual on the planet. He could do it another 5 times and still be a billionaire. Yes, I’m aware his net worth doesn’t mean liquid assets but the point remains.
- minitoar 3y ago
  I imagine after he did that once or twice his net worth would fall considerably more than the value of Twitter.
- therouwboat 3y ago
  So why does he worry about advertisers and bills? Why did he fire most of the employees? Why is he pushing changes to production without testing? Why rush things when you can fail 5 times and still try again?
- epups 3y ago
  This is actually not true. His wealth is propped up by trust. If everyone starts to believe that he's incompetent, stock prices will go down and loans will be more expensive. Also, he bought twitter by taking debt against his other assets. No one can lose 40B and come out unscathed, not even Musk.
  - blisterpeanuts 3y ago
    Would Musk really lose $40 billion (or is it $46b), if he dumps Twitter? He could sell it to someone, Microsoft for example, at a loss e.g. $25b or $30b, which covers the loans, and write off the rest. That said, his historical pattern is not to sell out so quickly, but rather to keep iterating until he and his team get it right.
    - epups 3y ago
      The parent said he could simply shut it off entirely without consequences. I'm not sure he could sell it right now for even half the money he put in.
    - wpietri 3y ago
      One of Twitter's stockholders is valuing it now at only $15 billion: https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/31/tech/twitter-value-fidelity-estimate/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/31/tech/twitter-value-fidelity-e... Even Musk values it at $20 billion: https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/26/23657182/elon-musk-twitter-employee-stock-grants-valuation https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/26/23657182/elon-musk-twitte... And that was a few months ago. I'd argue that one of Twitter's most valuable assets, the blue checkmark, has been irrevocably destroyed. And if I were looking at buying it, I'd also be concerned that the technical infrastructure is a significantly impaired asset, possibly one of negative value.
  - wpietri 3y ago
    And honestly, that's the part that I've enjoyed the most. Musk's faux "Tony Stark" shtick was always PR. But it was widely believed PR, and it gave him an incredibly low cost of capital and oceans of free marketing. But basically from the moment he tried to buy Twitter, he's been ruining that reputation. It started with the business press, who have more of an incentive to see through the BS, and who quickly pointed out that it was a clown show of a takeover even before the Delaware courts forced him to buy it. That alone put a major dent in Tesla's stock price. Now everybody has gotten to see how bad he is at running Twitter. Most of us didn't know shit about launching satellites, but a lot more people understood Twitter. By objective measures, things have gone terribly, and there have been waves and waves of stories showing that Musk is not half the genius he was painted as. Which has caused a lot of questions being asked about all of his businesses. So now we're entering an age of electric cars, with global intent to switch. But Tesla, the nominal leader, has a stock price down 40% from its peak, and with widespread questions about how well it can really do. And part of that is definitely brand damage from Musk; I recently saw a Tesla with a bumper sticker that said, "When we bought it, we didn't know he was an asshole." Surely that has something to do with weakening sales despite previously unheard-of discounts. Maybe Musk will get it together, and mainly for the sake of others, I hope so. But if I had to bet, it would bet that his launching a bid for Twitter will be seen as a turning point where he began a long slide into irrelevance.
agentofoblivion 3y ago
I’m pretty sure those are supposed to be moral lessons, not misery porn. But hey, you seem to openly accept the idea of enjoying another’s suffering, and I admire that kind of honesty. I hope it doesn’t end up causing you misery.
- wpietri 3y ago
  I don't think you're quite getting the moral lesson in telling stories about gods punishing hubris, so let me spell it out: titanic arrogance is bad and comes with consequences, so don't do it, kids. The point is for people to see particular kinds of suffering as both appropriate and necessary. I agree that people enjoying suffering generally is pretty bad, and I avoid it. But I make an exception for people who cause suffering receiving the just consequences of their terrible actions. If Musk were just some guy who were living a quiet life and then got cancer or something, I'd feel for him. But he's not. He's someone who's been aggressively a jerk for more than a decade. His deciding to take on being a CEO of yet another company, one he didn't really understand except as a user, was bad enough. But as a former Twitter user and employee, I've had to watch him destroy something that a lot of people, me included, worked very hard on. I've had to watch him harm thousands of people quite directly, and many more indirectly. And all for nothing more than his arrogance and some half-baked clout-chasing notions. So I am absolutely going to enjoy the fuck out of his serial rake-stepping. Could this be bad for me? Well that's a question I will take seriously from somebody in saffron robes that spends 10 hours a day meditating. But it's not one I'll entertain from the Volunteer Musk Defense Brigade, and especially not from one of its members who was busy performing lack of empathy recently on this very site: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35824824 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35824824
  - agentofoblivion 3y ago
    Yes, pride -> fall, I get it. Although it's the celebration of the fall from the sidelines that I'm questioning. I can feel the spite in your words--towards me, towards Musk, and the "other side", which are a faceless group you call the Volunteer Musk Defense Brigade, of which I'm apparently an unknowing member, I guess because I don't think some technical glitch is that big of a deal. You seem to feel lots of spite for people you've never met. I think there are plenty of tragedies written of people destroyed by their spite--maybe Notes from the Underground qualifies. And in an irony of ironies, you crawl through my post history and take objection to me expressing my lack of empathy for those that make repeated bad financial decisions, but you're not only defending that very sentiment, but taking it a step further: enjoyment of the suffering. I hope you find peace, brother. I'm going to put my robes back on and get those last few meditation hours in now.

transcriptase 3y ago

You can relish in the idea of Twitter having technical issues as if it hurts Elon in some tangible way, but the fact is he could pull the plug on it tomorrow… simply shut Twitter down entirely. Take the entire value of the company as a personal loss, and give everyone working there $1m for their service. And still be the wealthiest individual on the planet. He could do it another 5 times and still be a billionaire. Yes, I’m aware his net worth doesn’t mean liquid assets but the point remains.

minitoar 3y ago
I imagine after he did that once or twice his net worth would fall considerably more than the value of Twitter.
therouwboat 3y ago
So why does he worry about advertisers and bills? Why did he fire most of the employees? Why is he pushing changes to production without testing? Why rush things when you can fail 5 times and still try again?
epups 3y ago
This is actually not true. His wealth is propped up by trust. If everyone starts to believe that he's incompetent, stock prices will go down and loans will be more expensive. Also, he bought twitter by taking debt against his other assets. No one can lose 40B and come out unscathed, not even Musk.
- blisterpeanuts 3y ago
  Would Musk really lose $40 billion (or is it $46b), if he dumps Twitter? He could sell it to someone, Microsoft for example, at a loss e.g. $25b or $30b, which covers the loans, and write off the rest. That said, his historical pattern is not to sell out so quickly, but rather to keep iterating until he and his team get it right.
  - epups 3y ago
    The parent said he could simply shut it off entirely without consequences. I'm not sure he could sell it right now for even half the money he put in.
  - wpietri 3y ago
    One of Twitter's stockholders is valuing it now at only $15 billion: https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/31/tech/twitter-value-fidelity-estimate/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/31/tech/twitter-value-fidelity-e... Even Musk values it at $20 billion: https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/26/23657182/elon-musk-twitter-employee-stock-grants-valuation https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/26/23657182/elon-musk-twitte... And that was a few months ago. I'd argue that one of Twitter's most valuable assets, the blue checkmark, has been irrevocably destroyed. And if I were looking at buying it, I'd also be concerned that the technical infrastructure is a significantly impaired asset, possibly one of negative value.
- wpietri 3y ago
  And honestly, that's the part that I've enjoyed the most. Musk's faux "Tony Stark" shtick was always PR. But it was widely believed PR, and it gave him an incredibly low cost of capital and oceans of free marketing. But basically from the moment he tried to buy Twitter, he's been ruining that reputation. It started with the business press, who have more of an incentive to see through the BS, and who quickly pointed out that it was a clown show of a takeover even before the Delaware courts forced him to buy it. That alone put a major dent in Tesla's stock price. Now everybody has gotten to see how bad he is at running Twitter. Most of us didn't know shit about launching satellites, but a lot more people understood Twitter. By objective measures, things have gone terribly, and there have been waves and waves of stories showing that Musk is not half the genius he was painted as. Which has caused a lot of questions being asked about all of his businesses. So now we're entering an age of electric cars, with global intent to switch. But Tesla, the nominal leader, has a stock price down 40% from its peak, and with widespread questions about how well it can really do. And part of that is definitely brand damage from Musk; I recently saw a Tesla with a bumper sticker that said, "When we bought it, we didn't know he was an asshole." Surely that has something to do with weakening sales despite previously unheard-of discounts. Maybe Musk will get it together, and mainly for the sake of others, I hope so. But if I had to bet, it would bet that his launching a bid for Twitter will be seen as a turning point where he began a long slide into irrelevance.

agentofoblivion 3y ago

I’m pretty sure those are supposed to be moral lessons, not misery porn. But hey, you seem to openly accept the idea of enjoying another’s suffering, and I admire that kind of honesty. I hope it doesn’t end up causing you misery.

wpietri 3y ago
I don't think you're quite getting the moral lesson in telling stories about gods punishing hubris, so let me spell it out: titanic arrogance is bad and comes with consequences, so don't do it, kids. The point is for people to see particular kinds of suffering as both appropriate and necessary. I agree that people enjoying suffering generally is pretty bad, and I avoid it. But I make an exception for people who cause suffering receiving the just consequences of their terrible actions. If Musk were just some guy who were living a quiet life and then got cancer or something, I'd feel for him. But he's not. He's someone who's been aggressively a jerk for more than a decade. His deciding to take on being a CEO of yet another company, one he didn't really understand except as a user, was bad enough. But as a former Twitter user and employee, I've had to watch him destroy something that a lot of people, me included, worked very hard on. I've had to watch him harm thousands of people quite directly, and many more indirectly. And all for nothing more than his arrogance and some half-baked clout-chasing notions. So I am absolutely going to enjoy the fuck out of his serial rake-stepping. Could this be bad for me? Well that's a question I will take seriously from somebody in saffron robes that spends 10 hours a day meditating. But it's not one I'll entertain from the Volunteer Musk Defense Brigade, and especially not from one of its members who was busy performing lack of empathy recently on this very site: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35824824 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35824824
- agentofoblivion 3y ago
  Yes, pride -> fall, I get it. Although it's the celebration of the fall from the sidelines that I'm questioning. I can feel the spite in your words--towards me, towards Musk, and the "other side", which are a faceless group you call the Volunteer Musk Defense Brigade, of which I'm apparently an unknowing member, I guess because I don't think some technical glitch is that big of a deal. You seem to feel lots of spite for people you've never met. I think there are plenty of tragedies written of people destroyed by their spite--maybe Notes from the Underground qualifies. And in an irony of ironies, you crawl through my post history and take objection to me expressing my lack of empathy for those that make repeated bad financial decisions, but you're not only defending that very sentiment, but taking it a step further: enjoyment of the suffering. I hope you find peace, brother. I'm going to put my robes back on and get those last few meditation hours in now.