4 ms·

Because that's not how controlled substances are grouped and regulated, and for good reason.

anigbrowl 3y ago
Then maybe it's the controlled substance administration that's wrong. Seriously, what level of hubris does it take to think that natural substances like psilocybin mushrooms which have existed for millions of years must be brought under the control of a polity's legislature? It's like declaring sharks or snakes illegal because they give some people nightmares. Future generations will laugh in disbelief at this idiocy.
- seabird 3y ago
  I don't know what you're getting at here. We're not talking about values. We're talking about why the word "psychedelics" is a worthless term as far as the law is concerned. From a values standpoint, I don't see how it would be idiotic to schedule truly dangerous drugs like 25i-NBOMe more strictly than psilocybin or LSD.
  - krispyfi 3y ago
    25i-NBOMe isn't "truly dangerous". It's only dangerous if mistaken for LSD and dosed carelessly, so rather than scheduling it more strictly, there should be strict requirements for accurate labeling and consistent dosing, like every other drug.
    - seabird 3y ago
      It is straight up dangerous. 5x a common dose of <1mg can kill you. Nobody that can actually execute on properly dosing it will expose themselves to the liability of doing so. Drugs are cool and interesting, go ahead and do them, but trying to pretend that something like 25i-NBOMe is something that Joe Average will safely deal with is, frankly, pretty fucking stupid. This conversation is constantly approached with this idea that everybody is a reasonable, informed person that is fully educated on the risks, but that's just not how this works.
      - squirtlebonflow 3y ago
        Well, that's an interesting idea. 20x a common dose of acetaminophen, an extremely pervasive, legal, over the counter painkiller, can kill you. Less can kill a child. Lots of drugs contain it, such as over the counter cough medicine. People legitimately die or become seriously ill every year because they don't know this. Granted, 5x is a lot different than 20x especially when a drug is taken for recreation rather than necessity. I've never done 25i-NBOMe, but it's my understanding that it's easy to overdose because a method of administration is blotter paper and people think they're taking LSD. In our current world, when you get prescription drugs for the first time, you are provided with information about risks. Over the counter medicine, you aren't. In my ideal world, if you wanted to do a recreational drug and it had risks like this, you'd have to complete a drug education course and obtain a prescription, you'd be provided with phone numbers for services like overdosing or mental health, specific to the drugs you're planning on doing, and dosage would be easy because medical professionals are doing it in a lab before they sell it to you. The average Joe would much rather do drugs that they know are manufactured correctly, not adulterated or cut with other substances, where the dose is measured accurately, and where if something goes wrong they have a professional to help them, even if it means they have to pay a bit more than the black market - which will surely still exist. And if someone goes through the black market and does because they did a drug that is now legal, and they didn't know the correct dose? Sad, but that's on them
        seabird 3y ago
        Acetaminophen has a poor safety profile and I wish they would take it off the market, and that's a drug where the danger is in taking 10+ fairly large capsules of it instead of 1. The difference between normal 25i-NBOMe usage and fatal usage can be as small as putting a 1x1cm piece of paper in your mouth vs putting a 1x3cm piece of paper in your mouth. I agree with your ideal world. The point of my original comment was that making no distinction between something like 25i-NBOMe and something like LSD, calling them psychedelics, and regulating them as such just isn't a good idea. I am not claiming that you should go to jail for having or using them.
      - krispyfi 3y ago
- scns 3y ago
  How did drugs become illegal? Check out the documentary series Hooked. Short answer: Racism and corruption. [addendum] Marijuana and Methamphetamine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvGtn8RzF0U&list=PL2-GCln73gJRBMMSLz7IuOf5kyu45o9HC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvGtn8RzF0U&list=PL2-GCln73g... Ecstasy, LSD & the Raves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3id6j6nJmlo&list=PL2-GCln73gJRBMMSLz7IuOf5kyu45o9HC&index=3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3id6j6nJmlo&list=PL2-GCln73g... Opium, Morphine and Heroin: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ocqwm https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ocqwm
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    This is true in China as well?

Then maybe it's the controlled substance administration that's wrong. Seriously, what level of hubris does it take to think that natural substances like psilocybin mushrooms which have existed for millions of years must be brought under the control of a polity's legislature? It's like declaring sharks or snakes illegal because they give some people nightmares. Future generations will laugh in disbelief at this idiocy.

seabird 3y ago
I don't know what you're getting at here. We're not talking about values. We're talking about why the word "psychedelics" is a worthless term as far as the law is concerned. From a values standpoint, I don't see how it would be idiotic to schedule truly dangerous drugs like 25i-NBOMe more strictly than psilocybin or LSD.
- krispyfi 3y ago
  25i-NBOMe isn't "truly dangerous". It's only dangerous if mistaken for LSD and dosed carelessly, so rather than scheduling it more strictly, there should be strict requirements for accurate labeling and consistent dosing, like every other drug.
  - seabird 3y ago
    It is straight up dangerous. 5x a common dose of <1mg can kill you. Nobody that can actually execute on properly dosing it will expose themselves to the liability of doing so. Drugs are cool and interesting, go ahead and do them, but trying to pretend that something like 25i-NBOMe is something that Joe Average will safely deal with is, frankly, pretty fucking stupid. This conversation is constantly approached with this idea that everybody is a reasonable, informed person that is fully educated on the risks, but that's just not how this works.
    - squirtlebonflow 3y ago
      Well, that's an interesting idea. 20x a common dose of acetaminophen, an extremely pervasive, legal, over the counter painkiller, can kill you. Less can kill a child. Lots of drugs contain it, such as over the counter cough medicine. People legitimately die or become seriously ill every year because they don't know this. Granted, 5x is a lot different than 20x especially when a drug is taken for recreation rather than necessity. I've never done 25i-NBOMe, but it's my understanding that it's easy to overdose because a method of administration is blotter paper and people think they're taking LSD. In our current world, when you get prescription drugs for the first time, you are provided with information about risks. Over the counter medicine, you aren't. In my ideal world, if you wanted to do a recreational drug and it had risks like this, you'd have to complete a drug education course and obtain a prescription, you'd be provided with phone numbers for services like overdosing or mental health, specific to the drugs you're planning on doing, and dosage would be easy because medical professionals are doing it in a lab before they sell it to you. The average Joe would much rather do drugs that they know are manufactured correctly, not adulterated or cut with other substances, where the dose is measured accurately, and where if something goes wrong they have a professional to help them, even if it means they have to pay a bit more than the black market - which will surely still exist. And if someone goes through the black market and does because they did a drug that is now legal, and they didn't know the correct dose? Sad, but that's on them
      - seabird 3y ago
        Acetaminophen has a poor safety profile and I wish they would take it off the market, and that's a drug where the danger is in taking 10+ fairly large capsules of it instead of 1. The difference between normal 25i-NBOMe usage and fatal usage can be as small as putting a 1x1cm piece of paper in your mouth vs putting a 1x3cm piece of paper in your mouth. I agree with your ideal world. The point of my original comment was that making no distinction between something like 25i-NBOMe and something like LSD, calling them psychedelics, and regulating them as such just isn't a good idea. I am not claiming that you should go to jail for having or using them.
    - krispyfi 3y ago
scns 3y ago
How did drugs become illegal? Check out the documentary series Hooked. Short answer: Racism and corruption. [addendum] Marijuana and Methamphetamine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvGtn8RzF0U&list=PL2-GCln73gJRBMMSLz7IuOf5kyu45o9HC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvGtn8RzF0U&list=PL2-GCln73g... Ecstasy, LSD & the Raves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3id6j6nJmlo&list=PL2-GCln73gJRBMMSLz7IuOf5kyu45o9HC&index=3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3id6j6nJmlo&list=PL2-GCln73g... Opium, Morphine and Heroin: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ocqwm https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ocqwm
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  This is true in China as well?