6 ms·

I was sentenced to three and a half years in China for providing VPN services

81 points by luckyjoe 3y ago

Hello everyone, I am from China. In 2019, I was sentenced to three and a half years in prison for providing VPN services (to access foreign websites). The charge was "providing hacker tools". I have just been released from jail, and I want to tell you that many people in China are currently being sentenced for this. There is no freedom in China.

brucethemoose2 3y ago
That is awful. But out of curiosity... What was the trial like? I read an interesting post claiming the Chinese criminal system uses a panel of judges and "people’s assessors" (which are kinda like professional jurors according to the post) instead of a jury system. Did such a system have a role in your conviction? Or is the law so broad that you would have been convicted with a jury anyway?
- luckyjoe 3y ago
  Firstly, if you are arrested by the police, you do not have the right to remain silent, and during the interrogation, you have no right to see a lawyer or your family. After the interrogation, you will be detained in a detention center. In the detention center, you can find a way to inform your family to hire a lawyer for you. The Procuratorate will decide whether to prosecute you after 31 days of detention. Then, the Procuratorate will determine your guilt and sentencing, and issue an indictment to you. Subsequently, the court will hold a trial and pronounce a verdict on your case, after which you have the opportunity to appeal. The "people's jury" system in China is fake, as they are actually members of the Communist Party who will not raise any objections to the verdict. The police, Procuratorate, and court are all in collusion. In China, there is a saying: "The police boil the noodles, the Procuratorate delivers the noodles, and the court eats the noodles." In reality, there is no genuine rule of law in China, as the law is merely a tool for the government to control the people.
  - EA-3167 3y ago
    "For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law." -Oscar Benavides
  - brucethemoose2 3y ago
    That is what I was afraid of... I assumed as much in politically sensitive cases like this, but it sounds like they are disinclined to question indictments for petty crime and such.
  - sanctnedexprsn 3y ago
    Is sham justice a sanctionable offense? Sanction (disambiguation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanction Economic sanctions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_sanctions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_sanctions What does the UDHR say about this? UDHR: Universal Declaration of Human Rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human... "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" (1948) https://www.ohchr.org/en/human-rights/universal-declaration/translations/english https://www.ohchr.org/en/human-rights/universal-declaration/... : > Article 10: Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him. > Article 11: Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence. > Article 18: Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance. > Article 19: Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. List of websites blocked in mainland china: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China#Table_of_high-ranking_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma... > Article 20: Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association. No one may be compelled to belong to an association. > Article 21: Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives. Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country. The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.
    - brucethemoose2 3y ago
      Well its the post WWII architects' fault for not giving the UN any teeth...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
hker 3y ago
Some possibly related discussions on the Great firewall and its circumvention (VPN): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36531485 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36531485 "How the great firewall of China detects and blocks fully encrypted traffic [pdf]"
I_am_tiberius 3y ago
I'm sorry for you! Are you still in China?
- luckyjoe 3y ago
  Yes, I am still in China and leaving is not easy. I am working hard to earn money and trying to find a way to leave China.
tuga 3y ago
[flagged]
- BasedAnon 3y ago
  nothing ever happens
- luckyjoe 3y ago
  These are real events that happened to me.
- readyplayernull 3y ago
  Then you wouldn't care visiting China and trying it out, right?
foobarbaz33 3y ago
You're a hero. Freedom isn't free. You paid a price to give a taste of it to others.
damon_default 3y ago
Is it not against the law to run a VPN server to allow people to access foreign sites in China?
endisneigh 3y ago
I’m curious why you provided these services? Did you not know it was against the law? I’m reminded of the case of someone smoking pot in Russia in getting years of prison for it. I definitely do not agree with the criminality, let alone sentencing, but why? Ignorance or did you not think you’d get caught?

81 points by luckyjoe 3y ago

brucethemoose2 3y ago

That is awful. But out of curiosity... What was the trial like? I read an interesting post claiming the Chinese criminal system uses a panel of judges and "people’s assessors" (which are kinda like professional jurors according to the post) instead of a jury system. Did such a system have a role in your conviction? Or is the law so broad that you would have been convicted with a jury anyway?

luckyjoe 3y ago
Firstly, if you are arrested by the police, you do not have the right to remain silent, and during the interrogation, you have no right to see a lawyer or your family. After the interrogation, you will be detained in a detention center. In the detention center, you can find a way to inform your family to hire a lawyer for you. The Procuratorate will decide whether to prosecute you after 31 days of detention. Then, the Procuratorate will determine your guilt and sentencing, and issue an indictment to you. Subsequently, the court will hold a trial and pronounce a verdict on your case, after which you have the opportunity to appeal. The "people's jury" system in China is fake, as they are actually members of the Communist Party who will not raise any objections to the verdict. The police, Procuratorate, and court are all in collusion. In China, there is a saying: "The police boil the noodles, the Procuratorate delivers the noodles, and the court eats the noodles." In reality, there is no genuine rule of law in China, as the law is merely a tool for the government to control the people.
- EA-3167 3y ago
  "For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law." -Oscar Benavides
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  That is what I was afraid of... I assumed as much in politically sensitive cases like this, but it sounds like they are disinclined to question indictments for petty crime and such.
- sanctnedexprsn 3y ago
  Is sham justice a sanctionable offense? Sanction (disambiguation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanction Economic sanctions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_sanctions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_sanctions What does the UDHR say about this? UDHR: Universal Declaration of Human Rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human... "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" (1948) https://www.ohchr.org/en/human-rights/universal-declaration/translations/english https://www.ohchr.org/en/human-rights/universal-declaration/... : > Article 10: Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him. > Article 11: Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence. > Article 18: Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance. > Article 19: Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. List of websites blocked in mainland china: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China#Table_of_high-ranking_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma... > Article 20: Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association. No one may be compelled to belong to an association. > Article 21: Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives. Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country. The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.
  - brucethemoose2 3y ago
    Well its the post WWII architects' fault for not giving the UN any teeth...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

hker 3y ago

Some possibly related discussions on the Great firewall and its circumvention (VPN): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36531485 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36531485 "How the great firewall of China detects and blocks fully encrypted traffic [pdf]"

I_am_tiberius 3y ago

I'm sorry for you! Are you still in China?

luckyjoe 3y ago
Yes, I am still in China and leaving is not easy. I am working hard to earn money and trying to find a way to leave China.

tuga 3y ago

[flagged]

BasedAnon 3y ago
nothing ever happens
luckyjoe 3y ago
These are real events that happened to me.
readyplayernull 3y ago
Then you wouldn't care visiting China and trying it out, right?

foobarbaz33 3y ago

You're a hero. Freedom isn't free. You paid a price to give a taste of it to others.

damon_default 3y ago

Is it not against the law to run a VPN server to allow people to access foreign sites in China?

endisneigh 3y ago

I’m curious why you provided these services? Did you not know it was against the law? I’m reminded of the case of someone smoking pot in Russia in getting years of prison for it. I definitely do not agree with the criminality, let alone sentencing, but why? Ignorance or did you not think you’d get caught?