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What if we need to support a country that does need lots of artillery shells like Ukraine? Surely they should have a plan for that contingency? I can understan

What if we need to support a country that does need lots of artillery shells like Ukraine? Surely they should have a plan for that contingency? I can understand not having full production facilities due to expense, but at least plans for those facilities if they need to be built in a hurry?

mschuster91 3y ago
Common sentiment was that the US would go more isolationist, no more foreign adventures with the exception of maybe shooting some rockets on some djihadists.
alephnerd 3y ago
> What if we need to support a country that does need lots of artillery shells like Ukraine? We have allies to do that for us. Before the Russia-Ukraine war escalated in 2022, Ukraine was procuring drones from Türkiye, artillery from Germany, and combat training from Canada and the UK. If we began directly providing offensive weaponry to Ukraine before 2022, we would have ended up escalating the conflict much sooner. By allowing our allies to handle procurement we were at least able to buy Ukraine enough time to rebuild their army after it collapsed in the aftermath of 2014.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  "Ukraine was procuring drones from Türkiye, artillery from Germany" Don't you mean artillery from Deutschland? :)
  - gumby 3y ago
    I think Turkey tried a couple of years ago to specify that the spelling of the country’s name in English should be the same as in Turkish. I remember reading about it in the news. Probably that suggestion/rule is followed by some parts of the UN and perhaps some documents from a few foreign ministries. I certainly hadn’t ever seen it in the wild until the GP comment. It made me chuckle…not at the commenter but at the country. But what the hell, yes I wrote (and will continue to write) “Turkey”, but I won’t call Istanbul Constantinople, much less Byzantium.
    - mensetmanusman 3y ago
      "Please spell our country name with letters you don't have in your language" Not sure why these absurd dictatorial tendencies are being taken seriously...
      - wrp 3y ago
        Well, if governments in 東京, 서울, and กรุงเทพมหานคร do, shouldn't we also? /s
      - lisasays 3y ago
        If it's okay for Côte d'Ivoire or Réunion then I don't see why Türkiye should be snubbed for making a similar request. Also it's 2023 and people know how to deal with tricky alphabets and stuff now.
        mock-possum 3y ago
        Right like it takes any effort to just look it up and copy and paste.
        DropInIn 3y ago
        Well... There is an argument for those based solely in the volume of loan words from French though right? Not saying it's wrong to not deride someone for using the proper spelling but the existence of the French forms shouldn't inherently require forms from languages without significant influence on English.
    - Someone 3y ago
      > I think Turkey tried a couple of years ago to specify that the spelling of the country’s name in English should be the same as in Turkish They asked for it to be changed, and got what they asked for. Both the UN (https://turkiye.un.org/en/184798-turkeys-name-changed-türkiye https://turkiye.un.org/en/184798-turkeys-name-changed-türkiy..., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Turkey#Presidential_circular_on_use_of_Türkiye https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Turkey#Presidential_ci...) and the USA (https://www.dw.com/en/us-officially-changes-spelling-of-turkey-to-turkiye/a-64301304 https://www.dw.com/en/us-officially-changes-spelling-of-turk...) decided to change that spelling.
- greedo 3y ago
  I'm pretty sure that Germany was not selling any artillery systems to Ukraine prior to the 2022 invasion. Otherwise they wouldn't have been so reticent to supply PZH2000 and MARS.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    Good catch. I think I may have mixed up some of the post-2022 arms exports to Ukraine with pre-2022 with earlier reporting about Ukrainian weapons imports.

mschuster91 3y ago

Common sentiment was that the US would go more isolationist, no more foreign adventures with the exception of maybe shooting some rockets on some djihadists.

alephnerd 3y ago

> What if we need to support a country that does need lots of artillery shells like Ukraine? We have allies to do that for us. Before the Russia-Ukraine war escalated in 2022, Ukraine was procuring drones from Türkiye, artillery from Germany, and combat training from Canada and the UK. If we began directly providing offensive weaponry to Ukraine before 2022, we would have ended up escalating the conflict much sooner. By allowing our allies to handle procurement we were at least able to buy Ukraine enough time to rebuild their army after it collapsed in the aftermath of 2014.

mensetmanusman 3y ago
"Ukraine was procuring drones from Türkiye, artillery from Germany" Don't you mean artillery from Deutschland? :)
- gumby 3y ago
  I think Turkey tried a couple of years ago to specify that the spelling of the country’s name in English should be the same as in Turkish. I remember reading about it in the news. Probably that suggestion/rule is followed by some parts of the UN and perhaps some documents from a few foreign ministries. I certainly hadn’t ever seen it in the wild until the GP comment. It made me chuckle…not at the commenter but at the country. But what the hell, yes I wrote (and will continue to write) “Turkey”, but I won’t call Istanbul Constantinople, much less Byzantium.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    "Please spell our country name with letters you don't have in your language" Not sure why these absurd dictatorial tendencies are being taken seriously...
    - wrp 3y ago
      Well, if governments in 東京, 서울, and กรุงเทพมหานคร do, shouldn't we also? /s
    - lisasays 3y ago
      If it's okay for Côte d'Ivoire or Réunion then I don't see why Türkiye should be snubbed for making a similar request. Also it's 2023 and people know how to deal with tricky alphabets and stuff now.
      - mock-possum 3y ago
        Right like it takes any effort to just look it up and copy and paste.
      - DropInIn 3y ago
        Well... There is an argument for those based solely in the volume of loan words from French though right? Not saying it's wrong to not deride someone for using the proper spelling but the existence of the French forms shouldn't inherently require forms from languages without significant influence on English.
  - Someone 3y ago
    > I think Turkey tried a couple of years ago to specify that the spelling of the country’s name in English should be the same as in Turkish They asked for it to be changed, and got what they asked for. Both the UN (https://turkiye.un.org/en/184798-turkeys-name-changed-türkiye https://turkiye.un.org/en/184798-turkeys-name-changed-türkiy..., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Turkey#Presidential_circular_on_use_of_Türkiye https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Turkey#Presidential_ci...) and the USA (https://www.dw.com/en/us-officially-changes-spelling-of-turkey-to-turkiye/a-64301304 https://www.dw.com/en/us-officially-changes-spelling-of-turk...) decided to change that spelling.
greedo 3y ago
I'm pretty sure that Germany was not selling any artillery systems to Ukraine prior to the 2022 invasion. Otherwise they wouldn't have been so reticent to supply PZH2000 and MARS.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  Good catch. I think I may have mixed up some of the post-2022 arms exports to Ukraine with pre-2022 with earlier reporting about Ukrainian weapons imports.