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> I mean look at Mastodon - it peaked when Elon took over Twitter, but has just been in decline since then. It's probably reasonably expected to get a surge of

by Ukv 3y ago

> I mean look at Mastodon - it peaked when Elon took over Twitter, but has just been in decline since then. It's probably reasonably expected to get a surge of new sign-ups when a competitor does something controversial, then drop back down to a more natural rate (but hopefully still higher than pre-surge). I don't think this on its own indicates failure. > I built my own HN/Reddit alternative [1] with the sole mission of retaining a high standard of quality. Will it work? At the risk of being snarky myself, I'd claim the mission is a failure right from user #1: https://i.imgur.com/57BhkkJ.png https://i.imgur.com/57BhkkJ.png - the quality standard of ad-hominem soapboxing is already near rock bottom.

JSavageOne 3y ago
> At the risk of being snarky myself Did you have an actual counter-argument? (article referenced in the image: https://jsavage.xyz/2022/09/30/debate-exposes-bigotry-of-wokeness/ https://jsavage.xyz/2022/09/30/debate-exposes-bigotry-of-wok...) You're kind of proving my point here. On Reddit this would get downvote censored with no one even attempting to come up with a coherent counterargumemt, just people using downvote as a disagree button, squashing out all unorthodox views, and breeding the hivemind.
- Ukv 3y ago
  > Did you have an actual counter-argument? To the positions within the screenshots ("the Matrix" targeting Andrew Tate, "woke bullshit", etc.), or the discussion here on whether your site has/will retain a "high standard of quality" in its discussion? The latter was what I'm commenting on, by implying that the site's owner posting a ragebait bias-affirming Youtube video followed by a comment repeatedly calling the other side "idiots" is already a very low bar. > no one even attempting to come up with a coherent counterargumemt I wouldn't be opposed to a debate on one of the former if there's something concrete to argue against, but I don't think debating the former is necessary for the latter point (people against trans women in women's sports can still see that this in particular is low-quality discussion) and here probably isn't the place to do so.
  - JSavageOne 3y ago
    I actually didn't see you'd referenced the Andrew Tate article as well in your image (full article: https://jsavage.xyz/2022/09/28/why-we-need-andrew-tate/ https://jsavage.xyz/2022/09/28/why-we-need-andrew-tate/) I was referring to this statement you'd made: "I'd claim the mission is a failure right from user #1: https://i.imgur.com/57BhkkJ.png https://i.imgur.com/57BhkkJ.png - the quality standard of ad-hominem soapboxing is already near rock bottom." You seem to be claiming that the quality is low, so I was wondering if you had any specific counter-arguments to anything stated in those two comments/articles you referenced in your image. Or did you just want to criticize the 1,800 word and 540 word articles because you found the language not to your taste? Personally I'm more interested in the content of one's arguments rather than simply the presentation, but to each their own.
    - Ukv 3y ago
      > I was referring to this statement you'd made: "I'd claim the mission is a failure right from user #1: https://i.imgur.com/57BhkkJ.png https://i.imgur.com/57BhkkJ.png - the quality standard of ad-hominem soapboxing is already near rock bottom." > You seem to be claiming that the quality is low, so I was wondering if you had any specific counter-arguments to anything stated in those two comments/articles you referenced in your image. I try not to determine quality of an argument by how much I disagree with it. E.G: Many high-quality papers have thorough rebuttals, and many rants flaming the other side will happen to agree with my stance, or alternatively have no clear argument structure and nothing much concrete to refute. What's in the screenshot falls towards the latter. Possibly I could take the repeated "idiots" as an attempt at a point, and so reference papers generally finding correlation in the opposite direction [0][1], which can in turn be refuted (hopefully with sources), but again I don't think this is the place for that argument - make a post on your site with opening statement or something. [0]: http://davesource.com/Fringe/Fringe/Politics/Conservatism-and-cognitive-ability.pdf http://davesource.com/Fringe/Fringe/Politics/Conservatism-an... [1]: https://personal.lse.ac.uk/kanazawa/pdfs/spq2010.pdf https://personal.lse.ac.uk/kanazawa/pdfs/spq2010.pdf > because you found the language not to your taste If you're aiming for high quality discussion, I'd claim throwing around ad-hominems does run counter to that aim, and that debate (for which you'd need to attract people you disagree with to the site) is generally more productive when civil. > Personally I'm more interested in the content of one's arguments rather than simply the presentation, but to each their own. For the argument itself, ignoring discussion quality, you can in theory still present a strong argument in addition to insulting the other side, but not just have a string of insults in place of making a good argument. This is about it's content. You could improve the argument, for example, by offering sources/statistics, having a clear argument structure, or making a sincere attempt to engage with material on the other side (plenty of accessible feminist literature exists).

by Ukv 3y ago

JSavageOne 3y ago

> At the risk of being snarky myself Did you have an actual counter-argument? (article referenced in the image: https://jsavage.xyz/2022/09/30/debate-exposes-bigotry-of-wokeness/ https://jsavage.xyz/2022/09/30/debate-exposes-bigotry-of-wok...) You're kind of proving my point here. On Reddit this would get downvote censored with no one even attempting to come up with a coherent counterargumemt, just people using downvote as a disagree button, squashing out all unorthodox views, and breeding the hivemind.

Ukv 3y ago
> Did you have an actual counter-argument? To the positions within the screenshots ("the Matrix" targeting Andrew Tate, "woke bullshit", etc.), or the discussion here on whether your site has/will retain a "high standard of quality" in its discussion? The latter was what I'm commenting on, by implying that the site's owner posting a ragebait bias-affirming Youtube video followed by a comment repeatedly calling the other side "idiots" is already a very low bar. > no one even attempting to come up with a coherent counterargumemt I wouldn't be opposed to a debate on one of the former if there's something concrete to argue against, but I don't think debating the former is necessary for the latter point (people against trans women in women's sports can still see that this in particular is low-quality discussion) and here probably isn't the place to do so.
- JSavageOne 3y ago
  I actually didn't see you'd referenced the Andrew Tate article as well in your image (full article: https://jsavage.xyz/2022/09/28/why-we-need-andrew-tate/ https://jsavage.xyz/2022/09/28/why-we-need-andrew-tate/) I was referring to this statement you'd made: "I'd claim the mission is a failure right from user #1: https://i.imgur.com/57BhkkJ.png https://i.imgur.com/57BhkkJ.png - the quality standard of ad-hominem soapboxing is already near rock bottom." You seem to be claiming that the quality is low, so I was wondering if you had any specific counter-arguments to anything stated in those two comments/articles you referenced in your image. Or did you just want to criticize the 1,800 word and 540 word articles because you found the language not to your taste? Personally I'm more interested in the content of one's arguments rather than simply the presentation, but to each their own.
  - Ukv 3y ago
    > I was referring to this statement you'd made: "I'd claim the mission is a failure right from user #1: https://i.imgur.com/57BhkkJ.png https://i.imgur.com/57BhkkJ.png - the quality standard of ad-hominem soapboxing is already near rock bottom." > You seem to be claiming that the quality is low, so I was wondering if you had any specific counter-arguments to anything stated in those two comments/articles you referenced in your image. I try not to determine quality of an argument by how much I disagree with it. E.G: Many high-quality papers have thorough rebuttals, and many rants flaming the other side will happen to agree with my stance, or alternatively have no clear argument structure and nothing much concrete to refute. What's in the screenshot falls towards the latter. Possibly I could take the repeated "idiots" as an attempt at a point, and so reference papers generally finding correlation in the opposite direction [0][1], which can in turn be refuted (hopefully with sources), but again I don't think this is the place for that argument - make a post on your site with opening statement or something. [0]: http://davesource.com/Fringe/Fringe/Politics/Conservatism-and-cognitive-ability.pdf http://davesource.com/Fringe/Fringe/Politics/Conservatism-an... [1]: https://personal.lse.ac.uk/kanazawa/pdfs/spq2010.pdf https://personal.lse.ac.uk/kanazawa/pdfs/spq2010.pdf > because you found the language not to your taste If you're aiming for high quality discussion, I'd claim throwing around ad-hominems does run counter to that aim, and that debate (for which you'd need to attract people you disagree with to the site) is generally more productive when civil. > Personally I'm more interested in the content of one's arguments rather than simply the presentation, but to each their own. For the argument itself, ignoring discussion quality, you can in theory still present a strong argument in addition to insulting the other side, but not just have a string of insults in place of making a good argument. This is about it's content. You could improve the argument, for example, by offering sources/statistics, having a clear argument structure, or making a sincere attempt to engage with material on the other side (plenty of accessible feminist literature exists).