5 ms·

That makes no sense. Plenty of people I know have applied to jobs that were more interesting to them than their current work, even taking paycuts in some cases.

paulhauggis 15y ago
"even taking paycuts in some cases." Then they are fools and or don't have a family. As a developer with around 10 years of professional experience, I've been conned so many times by this when I was young and foolish. "Work here because we have fooseball table, free beer on Fridays, and cool projects." (But please ignore the fact that you are being paid $20,000 below market value.)
- k-mcgrady 15y ago
  There is a lot more to life than money. For a lot of people, as long as they make enough money to life a comfortable life, they are happy to make less to work on exciting projects. If I was offered $100,000 to do boring work vs. $50,000 to do exciting work I would choose the latter (provided the $50,000 covered my living expenses). That does not make me a fool. I may not have a family but those rules would still apply. As long as I could provide for my family I would take the more exciting job.
  - kamaal 15y ago
    That's exactly the point. There is a lot more to life than money. And that lot more can be done, more fun can be had if there is more money. Imagine a situation where you have steady source of Income for life. There are better, interesting, challenging and more fun things to do than sitting in a cubicle for 16 hours and slogging till your bones hurt. What are you are saying is a typical of 'Enjoy the journey, forget the destination' kind of message. However you can be happy with you misery. That makes you happy, but still that does mean you live in misery.Earning little, making sacrifices and then being happy about it doesn't quite actually mean you are happy, rich and comfortable. It just means you have come to negotiation with your self that you are ok with that.
    - LargeWu 15y ago
      No, I think you're missing the point. I took a pay cut a few years ago to take my current job. What I got in return for that cut was way less stress, a more fulfilling work life, more quality time at home, etc. When people say "There's more to life than money" they are talking about things you literally can't buy.
      - kamaal 15y ago
        I am talking of the same thing. If you had that steady stream of incoming money you wouldn't even need your current job. You would have all the time for yourself, and more quality time for your family.
        Volpe 15y ago
        Trying to encapsulate what happiness (of yourself and other people) in an HN comment is going to fail. Don't trivialise other peoples motivations because they aren't your own.
  - batista 15y ago
    There is a lot more to life than money. Yes, and that includes more being to life than work. So, why'd would you work your ass off for someone for less, when you could be paid more and have more income/time to pursuit those other "more things in life"?
  - paulhauggis 15y ago
    "There is a lot more to life than money." You're right there is: freedom. The most important thing for me in life is freedom. To get this, you need money. You may be able to take the $50K and just get by, but I would suggest finding an exciting project that pays $100K instead and save the money you don't need for your future. I did just this 5 years ago and it gave me enough runway to start my own business when I lost my job. "As long as I could provide for my family I would take the more exciting job." You never know when you will need money. Doctor bills? you lose your job and can't find another one? kid's college education? Kids are really expensive. You also only have one life. Your employer is getting the majority of it (and most likely getting rich in the process). You should get paid what you are worth. Most developers don't do this (I used to be one of them).
  - jasonlotito 15y ago
    "(provided the $50,000 covered my living expenses)" So, even you admit, the money is the first thing that needs to make sense. Once the money motivation is satisfied, other things come into play.
- julianz 15y ago
  Nope. I'm not a fool and I do have a family, but I ended up in a very well-paid but soul-destroying job in a ReasonablyBigCo. I quit to work for a well-run SmallCo for less money because I am a happier person now. I don't regret it even for a moment.
  - jasonlotito 15y ago
    Does that well run SmallCo job pay cover your expenses? If it didn't cover your expenses, would you continue to work there? I imagine that SmallCo pay gives you enough that you did not need to make a real sacrifice. Basically, it met your minimum requirement for money. If it hadn't, you wouldn't have taken the job.
- iamd 15y ago
  You might want to take a step back before you start lobbing insults. Exciting work doesn't just mean 'foosball table'. Perhaps the reason you're insulting those who disagree is because you've chosen exceptionally different definitions of what it means to do interesting and exciting work.
- nakkiel 15y ago
  I'm currently employed for less than 30K USD a year (trying to remain vague). Obviously there has got to be some sort of advantage somewhere.. - Foreign country - Low cost of life - High quality of life - Learning interesting new things - Current position prepare me to execute vague World Domination plan - Heck, freedom! Once done in my current position I'll even take a break for a couple of months working for free doing computer stuff with migrants. I certainly made choices on the way but I don't regret not having a car, a house or a family. How about you are the fool of your own decisions (mortgage loan, family expenses, etc..)?
  - johkra 15y ago
    Would you be willing to say a bit more about which country and how you got there? (My E-Mail is in my profile.) I'm currently in Switzerland, but I plan to live in Mediterranean countries other than Italy and Spain for some time in the future. I only ever lived in rich European countries, so I would be interested in your experiences.
- InclinedPlane 15y ago
  They are fools if the job they are going into is not actually a more rewarding work environment, or if they take an extreme hardship to work there. But if they're still making more than enough to pay their bills and their mortgages, feed their families, build up savings, and have a substantial amount of disposable income remaining then it seems like a perfectly fine decision to me. Working a job you hate merely so that you have an excess of money to buy things you don't want or need is a foolish and self-defeating choice.
- DanBC 15y ago
  What if the wording was "Work here because we've already increased length and quality of life for people with $ILLNESS, and we're working hard to find a cure. You wont be working on cat pictures. (But please ignore the fact that we're funded by charities and cannot afford to pay market values)".
bricestacey 15y ago
It makes plenty of sense. It's relative to one's financial situation, but for most people a $125,000 bonus is a very different event.
jlarocco 15y ago
That's not really the point I was trying to make. I also know people who have chosen lower paying jobs based on criteria other than pay. I've even done it myself. But it's still a job and I was still still being paid. My point was that if it were possible, the vast majority of people would prefer not to work at all and would like to spend their time on entertainment and leisure activities.
- hessenwolf 15y ago
  I code and math all day in my job. Then I go home, lock and load (possibly crack open a beer), and code and math all evening a few days a week.
  - jlarocco 15y ago
    Why not work from home all the time? Does your boss appreciate all the free work you do for them?
    - Macha 15y ago
      He never said he was doing code and math for his employment. He may be coding on his own projects. I guess this could still be considered as "improving their skillset"
      - hessenwolf 15y ago
        I am programming my own stuff. I swap code blocks back and forth though.
- brazzy 15y ago
  The vast majority of people think they would prefer that because it's not a realistic option for them. But a lot of people who actually have that option choose to work anyway (quite hard in many cases). Any many of those who actually do choose to spend their time entirely on "entertainment and leisure activity" become deeply unhappy.

paulhauggis 15y ago

"even taking paycuts in some cases." Then they are fools and or don't have a family. As a developer with around 10 years of professional experience, I've been conned so many times by this when I was young and foolish. "Work here because we have fooseball table, free beer on Fridays, and cool projects." (But please ignore the fact that you are being paid $20,000 below market value.)

k-mcgrady 15y ago
There is a lot more to life than money. For a lot of people, as long as they make enough money to life a comfortable life, they are happy to make less to work on exciting projects. If I was offered $100,000 to do boring work vs. $50,000 to do exciting work I would choose the latter (provided the $50,000 covered my living expenses). That does not make me a fool. I may not have a family but those rules would still apply. As long as I could provide for my family I would take the more exciting job.
- kamaal 15y ago
  That's exactly the point. There is a lot more to life than money. And that lot more can be done, more fun can be had if there is more money. Imagine a situation where you have steady source of Income for life. There are better, interesting, challenging and more fun things to do than sitting in a cubicle for 16 hours and slogging till your bones hurt. What are you are saying is a typical of 'Enjoy the journey, forget the destination' kind of message. However you can be happy with you misery. That makes you happy, but still that does mean you live in misery.Earning little, making sacrifices and then being happy about it doesn't quite actually mean you are happy, rich and comfortable. It just means you have come to negotiation with your self that you are ok with that.
  - LargeWu 15y ago
    No, I think you're missing the point. I took a pay cut a few years ago to take my current job. What I got in return for that cut was way less stress, a more fulfilling work life, more quality time at home, etc. When people say "There's more to life than money" they are talking about things you literally can't buy.
    - kamaal 15y ago
      I am talking of the same thing. If you had that steady stream of incoming money you wouldn't even need your current job. You would have all the time for yourself, and more quality time for your family.
      - Volpe 15y ago
        Trying to encapsulate what happiness (of yourself and other people) in an HN comment is going to fail. Don't trivialise other peoples motivations because they aren't your own.
- batista 15y ago
  There is a lot more to life than money. Yes, and that includes more being to life than work. So, why'd would you work your ass off for someone for less, when you could be paid more and have more income/time to pursuit those other "more things in life"?
- paulhauggis 15y ago
  "There is a lot more to life than money." You're right there is: freedom. The most important thing for me in life is freedom. To get this, you need money. You may be able to take the $50K and just get by, but I would suggest finding an exciting project that pays $100K instead and save the money you don't need for your future. I did just this 5 years ago and it gave me enough runway to start my own business when I lost my job. "As long as I could provide for my family I would take the more exciting job." You never know when you will need money. Doctor bills? you lose your job and can't find another one? kid's college education? Kids are really expensive. You also only have one life. Your employer is getting the majority of it (and most likely getting rich in the process). You should get paid what you are worth. Most developers don't do this (I used to be one of them).
- jasonlotito 15y ago
  "(provided the $50,000 covered my living expenses)" So, even you admit, the money is the first thing that needs to make sense. Once the money motivation is satisfied, other things come into play.
julianz 15y ago
Nope. I'm not a fool and I do have a family, but I ended up in a very well-paid but soul-destroying job in a ReasonablyBigCo. I quit to work for a well-run SmallCo for less money because I am a happier person now. I don't regret it even for a moment.
- jasonlotito 15y ago
  Does that well run SmallCo job pay cover your expenses? If it didn't cover your expenses, would you continue to work there? I imagine that SmallCo pay gives you enough that you did not need to make a real sacrifice. Basically, it met your minimum requirement for money. If it hadn't, you wouldn't have taken the job.
iamd 15y ago
You might want to take a step back before you start lobbing insults. Exciting work doesn't just mean 'foosball table'. Perhaps the reason you're insulting those who disagree is because you've chosen exceptionally different definitions of what it means to do interesting and exciting work.
nakkiel 15y ago
I'm currently employed for less than 30K USD a year (trying to remain vague). Obviously there has got to be some sort of advantage somewhere.. - Foreign country - Low cost of life - High quality of life - Learning interesting new things - Current position prepare me to execute vague World Domination plan - Heck, freedom! Once done in my current position I'll even take a break for a couple of months working for free doing computer stuff with migrants. I certainly made choices on the way but I don't regret not having a car, a house or a family. How about you are the fool of your own decisions (mortgage loan, family expenses, etc..)?
- johkra 15y ago
  Would you be willing to say a bit more about which country and how you got there? (My E-Mail is in my profile.) I'm currently in Switzerland, but I plan to live in Mediterranean countries other than Italy and Spain for some time in the future. I only ever lived in rich European countries, so I would be interested in your experiences.
InclinedPlane 15y ago
They are fools if the job they are going into is not actually a more rewarding work environment, or if they take an extreme hardship to work there. But if they're still making more than enough to pay their bills and their mortgages, feed their families, build up savings, and have a substantial amount of disposable income remaining then it seems like a perfectly fine decision to me. Working a job you hate merely so that you have an excess of money to buy things you don't want or need is a foolish and self-defeating choice.
DanBC 15y ago
What if the wording was "Work here because we've already increased length and quality of life for people with $ILLNESS, and we're working hard to find a cure. You wont be working on cat pictures. (But please ignore the fact that we're funded by charities and cannot afford to pay market values)".

bricestacey 15y ago

It makes plenty of sense. It's relative to one's financial situation, but for most people a $125,000 bonus is a very different event.

jlarocco 15y ago

That's not really the point I was trying to make. I also know people who have chosen lower paying jobs based on criteria other than pay. I've even done it myself. But it's still a job and I was still still being paid. My point was that if it were possible, the vast majority of people would prefer not to work at all and would like to spend their time on entertainment and leisure activities.

hessenwolf 15y ago
I code and math all day in my job. Then I go home, lock and load (possibly crack open a beer), and code and math all evening a few days a week.
- jlarocco 15y ago
  Why not work from home all the time? Does your boss appreciate all the free work you do for them?
  - Macha 15y ago
    He never said he was doing code and math for his employment. He may be coding on his own projects. I guess this could still be considered as "improving their skillset"
    - hessenwolf 15y ago
      I am programming my own stuff. I swap code blocks back and forth though.
brazzy 15y ago
The vast majority of people think they would prefer that because it's not a realistic option for them. But a lot of people who actually have that option choose to work anyway (quite hard in many cases). Any many of those who actually do choose to spend their time entirely on "entertainment and leisure activity" become deeply unhappy.