4 ms·

David Rumsey Map Collection

64 points by pera 3y ago

divbzero 3y ago
The interactive globes of Venus [1] and Io [2] are particularly cool. [1]: https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~329838~90098292:Interactive-Globe--Venus-Magellan-G https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~3... [2]: https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~329830~90098276:Interactive-Globe--Jupiter-Io-Galil https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~3...
verisimi 3y ago
Is it ok that online data is been mediated for us by members of secret societies, such as David Rumsey an "initiate into the Skull and Bones Society"? Should we trust someone who was "a founding member of Yale Research Associates in the Arts also known as PULSA, a group of artists working with electronic technologies"? Is it possible that secret society members could create/alter online data to ensure they are better able to achieve their objectives, whatever they are? quotes from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rumsey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rumsey
- oldmapgallery 3y ago
  Just wanted to put your fears and concerns at ease, if I could. Have interacted with Mr Rumsey for at least thirty years, and have always admired his humility, scholarship and efforts. Genuinely he's had an interest in cartography and history that has always had both breadth and depth. Have always been impressed by his desire to learn and to also invite people into the discussion. I think his efforts online have provided invaluable resources, by making high resolution scans available for free, without a catch (no need for an email, or account to use). Have met plenty of teachers that download his maps for class discussion and decoration too. As for "create/alter" online data... that would be incredible, and the only instances I've bumped into of misattributed or faked maps have been a few things on r/mapporn years ago, which could easily be debunked with some research. Should say too, if you ever want to truly experience the maps and all the resources available, if you find yourself in the Bay Area, take time to wander down to Stanford, there are thousands upon thousands of these maps available for you to review in person. And the staff are just as nice and smart as Mr Rumsey. Hope this helps.
  - verisimi 3y ago
    Thank you for your thoughts. I would say that I know lots of people, for a long time - but that doesn't mean I know what they think/intend or do. I don't know that I can vouch for anyone else. If someone joins a secret society, how do I know what that means to them? Being charitable towards these people (and there are valid reasons not to be) we can say that they may believe that it is perfectly acceptable to withhold information and mislead others, because there is a 'greater good' objective being met in doing so. Ie they think it is perfectly acceptable that I am kept in the dark (for my own good), with no ability to discern things for myself. People in elite positions, with say control of historical artifacts etc, are especially able/liable to take this position. And that is fine. But it is also fine for me to refuse to accept their information, to refuse to trust whatever they are pushing. When I know they are 'bonesmen', I know that I am unable to discern the reality or truth of what they propose - there can be no trust. What oaths have they taken? Why would they join such a society? Its not just a bit of fun. When they admit they are members of a secret society - and skull and bones is deeply involved in the management of society, counting presidents as members - we can conclude that it is most likely that there are covert reasons for what is done. Sorry to be crude, but whatever-it-is they they can stick it up their a**. Why trust evidence from people who are untrustworthy?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- smitty1e 3y ago
  Governments, also populated with prople, are somehow less fallible?
  - verisimi 3y ago
    This isn't a question of fallibility - feel free to explain what you mean. Governments are overtly attempting to control people. Powerful secret societies certainly use governments, but would also use subterfuge and trickery to direct attention. Governments would do this too, via special agencies. It's murky.
    - smitty1e 3y ago
      My point is that, while I agree with the issue identified, it's not clear how we're mitigating anything here. Our day is replete with moving the problem in lieu of retiring the problem.
simonsarris 3y ago
If you like this, I keep a list of similar art collections, and am always looking to expand it: https://simonsarris.com/art-collections https://simonsarris.com/art-collections I have David Rumsey on the list already. Historical map lovers may also like King George's collection of Military Maps, at the Royal Collection Trust: https://militarymaps.rct.uk/the-maps https://militarymaps.rct.uk/the-maps
- UberFly 3y ago
  This is great. Thanks for creating and sharing it.
- mattkevan 3y ago
  I made a similar list, definitely going to have to compare notes to see what I've missed! https://www.kevan.tv/2020/12/14/the-best-sites-for-public-domain-art-and-illustration/ https://www.kevan.tv/2020/12/14/the-best-sites-for-public-do...
suzzer99 3y ago
I helped program this site almost 20 years ago. It's fun stumbling across your old code still running online. The idea was to license the LUNA software to other image collections. I think NASA used it for a bit but that was about it. The problem was it was barely customizable (only color scheme, fonts) and no one had the stomach for how much more work (an order of magnitude at least) it was going to take to make it reasonably customizable for the different layouts/flows/features customers would want.
- benbreen 3y ago
  That’s cool, thanks for your work with this. I’m a regular user. Was going to say that the John Carter Brown Library (leading research library for rare books, maps, and manuscripts about colonial Americas) uses Luna - they did last time I checked, but seemingly it changed? At any rate it worked well for the past decade or so: https://jcb.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet https://jcb.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet Edit - looks like I got this mixed up with Luna Imaging which I assume is different
  - suzzer99 3y ago
    It's the same. Good to see they were able to license it to someone else. Maybe there are more out there. Crazy that both of them still have /servlet in the URL.

64 points by pera 3y ago

The interactive globes of Venus [1] and Io [2] are particularly cool. [1]: https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~329838~90098292:Interactive-Globe--Venus-Magellan-G https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~3... [2]: https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~329830~90098276:Interactive-Globe--Jupiter-Io-Galil https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~3...

verisimi 3y ago

Is it ok that online data is been mediated for us by members of secret societies, such as David Rumsey an "initiate into the Skull and Bones Society"? Should we trust someone who was "a founding member of Yale Research Associates in the Arts also known as PULSA, a group of artists working with electronic technologies"? Is it possible that secret society members could create/alter online data to ensure they are better able to achieve their objectives, whatever they are? quotes from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rumsey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rumsey

oldmapgallery 3y ago
Just wanted to put your fears and concerns at ease, if I could. Have interacted with Mr Rumsey for at least thirty years, and have always admired his humility, scholarship and efforts. Genuinely he's had an interest in cartography and history that has always had both breadth and depth. Have always been impressed by his desire to learn and to also invite people into the discussion. I think his efforts online have provided invaluable resources, by making high resolution scans available for free, without a catch (no need for an email, or account to use). Have met plenty of teachers that download his maps for class discussion and decoration too. As for "create/alter" online data... that would be incredible, and the only instances I've bumped into of misattributed or faked maps have been a few things on r/mapporn years ago, which could easily be debunked with some research. Should say too, if you ever want to truly experience the maps and all the resources available, if you find yourself in the Bay Area, take time to wander down to Stanford, there are thousands upon thousands of these maps available for you to review in person. And the staff are just as nice and smart as Mr Rumsey. Hope this helps.
- verisimi 3y ago
  Thank you for your thoughts. I would say that I know lots of people, for a long time - but that doesn't mean I know what they think/intend or do. I don't know that I can vouch for anyone else. If someone joins a secret society, how do I know what that means to them? Being charitable towards these people (and there are valid reasons not to be) we can say that they may believe that it is perfectly acceptable to withhold information and mislead others, because there is a 'greater good' objective being met in doing so. Ie they think it is perfectly acceptable that I am kept in the dark (for my own good), with no ability to discern things for myself. People in elite positions, with say control of historical artifacts etc, are especially able/liable to take this position. And that is fine. But it is also fine for me to refuse to accept their information, to refuse to trust whatever they are pushing. When I know they are 'bonesmen', I know that I am unable to discern the reality or truth of what they propose - there can be no trust. What oaths have they taken? Why would they join such a society? Its not just a bit of fun. When they admit they are members of a secret society - and skull and bones is deeply involved in the management of society, counting presidents as members - we can conclude that it is most likely that there are covert reasons for what is done. Sorry to be crude, but whatever-it-is they they can stick it up their a**. Why trust evidence from people who are untrustworthy?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
smitty1e 3y ago
Governments, also populated with prople, are somehow less fallible?
- verisimi 3y ago
  This isn't a question of fallibility - feel free to explain what you mean. Governments are overtly attempting to control people. Powerful secret societies certainly use governments, but would also use subterfuge and trickery to direct attention. Governments would do this too, via special agencies. It's murky.
  - smitty1e 3y ago
    My point is that, while I agree with the issue identified, it's not clear how we're mitigating anything here. Our day is replete with moving the problem in lieu of retiring the problem.

simonsarris 3y ago

If you like this, I keep a list of similar art collections, and am always looking to expand it: https://simonsarris.com/art-collections https://simonsarris.com/art-collections I have David Rumsey on the list already. Historical map lovers may also like King George's collection of Military Maps, at the Royal Collection Trust: https://militarymaps.rct.uk/the-maps https://militarymaps.rct.uk/the-maps

UberFly 3y ago
This is great. Thanks for creating and sharing it.
mattkevan 3y ago
I made a similar list, definitely going to have to compare notes to see what I've missed! https://www.kevan.tv/2020/12/14/the-best-sites-for-public-domain-art-and-illustration/ https://www.kevan.tv/2020/12/14/the-best-sites-for-public-do...

suzzer99 3y ago

I helped program this site almost 20 years ago. It's fun stumbling across your old code still running online. The idea was to license the LUNA software to other image collections. I think NASA used it for a bit but that was about it. The problem was it was barely customizable (only color scheme, fonts) and no one had the stomach for how much more work (an order of magnitude at least) it was going to take to make it reasonably customizable for the different layouts/flows/features customers would want.

benbreen 3y ago
That’s cool, thanks for your work with this. I’m a regular user. Was going to say that the John Carter Brown Library (leading research library for rare books, maps, and manuscripts about colonial Americas) uses Luna - they did last time I checked, but seemingly it changed? At any rate it worked well for the past decade or so: https://jcb.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet https://jcb.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet Edit - looks like I got this mixed up with Luna Imaging which I assume is different
- suzzer99 3y ago
  It's the same. Good to see they were able to license it to someone else. Maybe there are more out there. Crazy that both of them still have /servlet in the URL.