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To add to that, I would listen to what this ex-member of the SAS says on this very topic, and how difficult it is to actually undertake (and he was the guy who

by hnhg 3y ago

To add to that, I would listen to what this ex-member of the SAS says on this very topic, and how difficult it is to actually undertake (and he was the guy who helped with the terrorist attack on a shopping mall in Nairobi, so he has some direct experience): https://youtu.be/h3CNLY7fSzU?t=1797 https://youtu.be/h3CNLY7fSzU?t=1797

smcl 3y ago
I feel like many people would hear his words and not really process them. To you or I Craighead is saying something quite sensible - "you need to be ready and prepared to actually do this, and you probably aren't and won't be". But I've seen a lot of guys just parroting things like "be ready to use lethal force if you have to" to sound tough and as a sort of self-motivation, without really thinking about what they're saying. I've no idea who is mentally prepared or adequately trained to pull out a gun and tackle a mass shooter, but I'd be very surprised if the overwhelming majority of gun enthusiasts didn't just do something like this in that situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saQ72NZtrS0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saQ72NZtrS0
- hnhg 3y ago
  Yeah, and in total, he says it is about having all of (mentality * training * mental agility) to deal with such a situation. Given the low entrance requirements for joining a typical police force, I doubt many officers out there have all of those things in place, let alone civilians.
- philwelch 3y ago
  > I've no idea who is mentally prepared or adequately trained to pull out a gun and tackle a mass shooter His name is Elisjsha Dicken. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62217263 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62217263 There are multiple documented instances of armed civilians stopping mass shooters. I think you’d be surprised indeed. See if you can find the footage from the West Freeway Church shooting in Texas a few years back—multiple members of the congregation were carrying and drew their weapons once the shooting started, but none of them reacted as you suggest. The Uvalde cops were cowards who have no business serving in law enforcement. That’s the long and short of it.
  - smcl 3y ago
    If your hope is that every cop and/or gun owner magically transforms into this Elisjsha person, then I think you're going to be disappointed.
    - philwelch 3y ago
      You’re the one posting a video of someone acting like an idiot in a road rage incident and suggesting that’s what the typical gun owner does in a self defense situation. That’s simply not the case. Don’t turn this around and move the goalposts. Dicken was a hero in that incident, but he was also an ordinary civilian exercising his right to carry a concealed weapon in public. Incidentally, the same YouTuber who interviewed that SAS man made a video about Dicken; he explains the point a lot better than I probably can: https://youtu.be/mA7Rb-EX4K4 https://youtu.be/mA7Rb-EX4K4 And when it comes to cops, stop making excuses for the cowards in Uvalde. I am disappointed in them, and I have every right to be.

by hnhg 3y ago

smcl 3y ago

I feel like many people would hear his words and not really process them. To you or I Craighead is saying something quite sensible - "you need to be ready and prepared to actually do this, and you probably aren't and won't be". But I've seen a lot of guys just parroting things like "be ready to use lethal force if you have to" to sound tough and as a sort of self-motivation, without really thinking about what they're saying. I've no idea who is mentally prepared or adequately trained to pull out a gun and tackle a mass shooter, but I'd be very surprised if the overwhelming majority of gun enthusiasts didn't just do something like this in that situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saQ72NZtrS0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saQ72NZtrS0

hnhg 3y ago
Yeah, and in total, he says it is about having all of (mentality * training * mental agility) to deal with such a situation. Given the low entrance requirements for joining a typical police force, I doubt many officers out there have all of those things in place, let alone civilians.
philwelch 3y ago
> I've no idea who is mentally prepared or adequately trained to pull out a gun and tackle a mass shooter His name is Elisjsha Dicken. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62217263 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62217263 There are multiple documented instances of armed civilians stopping mass shooters. I think you’d be surprised indeed. See if you can find the footage from the West Freeway Church shooting in Texas a few years back—multiple members of the congregation were carrying and drew their weapons once the shooting started, but none of them reacted as you suggest. The Uvalde cops were cowards who have no business serving in law enforcement. That’s the long and short of it.
- smcl 3y ago
  If your hope is that every cop and/or gun owner magically transforms into this Elisjsha person, then I think you're going to be disappointed.
  - philwelch 3y ago
    You’re the one posting a video of someone acting like an idiot in a road rage incident and suggesting that’s what the typical gun owner does in a self defense situation. That’s simply not the case. Don’t turn this around and move the goalposts. Dicken was a hero in that incident, but he was also an ordinary civilian exercising his right to carry a concealed weapon in public. Incidentally, the same YouTuber who interviewed that SAS man made a video about Dicken; he explains the point a lot better than I probably can: https://youtu.be/mA7Rb-EX4K4 https://youtu.be/mA7Rb-EX4K4 And when it comes to cops, stop making excuses for the cowards in Uvalde. I am disappointed in them, and I have every right to be.