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Also and importantly the police gets lots of hands-me-down from the military, grants for high power devices, bills themselves warriors (with seminars like Gross

Also and importantly the police gets lots of hands-me-down from the military, grants for high power devices, bills themselves warriors (with seminars like Grossman’s Killology), and trains in fearing everything and considering the civilian population their enemy. US cops are basically trained in thinking they work in occupied territory, but not in trigger discipline. Every podunk town has set up a “SWAT” team armed to the teeth moving around in mrap, chomping at the bit to use their toys (as long as there’s no obvious danger on the scene, flashbanging a crib at dawn is A-ok, rushing a mass shooter in a school in broad daylight is, you know, maybe later).

0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
>...flashbanging a crib at dawn is A-ok, rushing a mass shooter in a school in broad daylight is, you know, maybe later Oh that's not fair. The official count is the police only waited 74 minutes[0] before attempting to engage a hostile situation. However, they were effective in blocking parents from entering the scene, tackling and threatening to taze anyone who dared disrespect their orders. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robb_Elementary_School_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robb_Elementary_School_shootin...
- dragontamer 3y ago
  The cops there IIRC were outgunned. The shooter had an AR-15 rifle. You ain't beating that with just a side-arm / pistol. AR15 shoots at 3x the muzzle velocity with larger bullets, meaning the AR15 penetrates walls / cover better, and has better accuracy to boot (less drop over distances so its far easier to aim). I don't know exactly which magazines he was using, but AR-15 rifles can come with effective magazines as large as 30 shots, while typical pistols only have 9 far weaker shots. A trained man with an AR15 could very well beat an entire squad of pistol-armed police men depending on the distance of engagement, body armor available and cover available. Ex: The AR15 could penetrate doors and walls, while the Police could not (and even if the Police __COULD__ penetrate the walls, there was a chance at injuring the hostages). People just don't realize the mechanics of what happens when a shooter has access to guns that are more powerful than the Columbine shooters. It makes the tactics for stopping those shooters that much more perilous. -------- You can't expect cops to walk into a fight with literally weaker weapons than what the shooter was obviously using. People don't realize that here in the USA, not only are guns legal... _BIG_ guns, like the AR15 are legal. This is what people talk about "assault style weapons", which is poorly defined but obviously means things stronger than a typical pistol. When guns get bigger, they shoot further. They penetrate more armor and cover. They shoot more accurately due to barrel length and faster velocities. You literally are getting outgunned and favored to lose from a tactical perspective unless you sit around and wait for the SWAT team. ----- > "We have him in the room. He's got an AR-15. He's shot a lot ... we don't have firepower right now ... It's all pistols ... I don't have a radio ... I need you to bring a radio for me, and give me my radio for me ... I need to get one rifle ... I'm trying to set him up. The Uvalde cops _DID_ attack the shooter. They were so obviously outgunned that they retreated. Welcome to the reality of AR-15 all over the damn place.
_v7gu 3y ago
> US cops are basically trained in thinking they work in occupied territory, but not in trigger discipline. Yeah, this sounds like an actual root cause compared to what the feds are trying to work on.

0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago

>...flashbanging a crib at dawn is A-ok, rushing a mass shooter in a school in broad daylight is, you know, maybe later Oh that's not fair. The official count is the police only waited 74 minutes[0] before attempting to engage a hostile situation. However, they were effective in blocking parents from entering the scene, tackling and threatening to taze anyone who dared disrespect their orders. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robb_Elementary_School_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robb_Elementary_School_shootin...

dragontamer 3y ago
The cops there IIRC were outgunned. The shooter had an AR-15 rifle. You ain't beating that with just a side-arm / pistol. AR15 shoots at 3x the muzzle velocity with larger bullets, meaning the AR15 penetrates walls / cover better, and has better accuracy to boot (less drop over distances so its far easier to aim). I don't know exactly which magazines he was using, but AR-15 rifles can come with effective magazines as large as 30 shots, while typical pistols only have 9 far weaker shots. A trained man with an AR15 could very well beat an entire squad of pistol-armed police men depending on the distance of engagement, body armor available and cover available. Ex: The AR15 could penetrate doors and walls, while the Police could not (and even if the Police __COULD__ penetrate the walls, there was a chance at injuring the hostages). People just don't realize the mechanics of what happens when a shooter has access to guns that are more powerful than the Columbine shooters. It makes the tactics for stopping those shooters that much more perilous. -------- You can't expect cops to walk into a fight with literally weaker weapons than what the shooter was obviously using. People don't realize that here in the USA, not only are guns legal... _BIG_ guns, like the AR15 are legal. This is what people talk about "assault style weapons", which is poorly defined but obviously means things stronger than a typical pistol. When guns get bigger, they shoot further. They penetrate more armor and cover. They shoot more accurately due to barrel length and faster velocities. You literally are getting outgunned and favored to lose from a tactical perspective unless you sit around and wait for the SWAT team. ----- > "We have him in the room. He's got an AR-15. He's shot a lot ... we don't have firepower right now ... It's all pistols ... I don't have a radio ... I need you to bring a radio for me, and give me my radio for me ... I need to get one rifle ... I'm trying to set him up. The Uvalde cops _DID_ attack the shooter. They were so obviously outgunned that they retreated. Welcome to the reality of AR-15 all over the damn place.

_v7gu 3y ago

> US cops are basically trained in thinking they work in occupied territory, but not in trigger discipline. Yeah, this sounds like an actual root cause compared to what the feds are trying to work on.