4 ms·

Consenting adults should be free to do as they please

by zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
111111IIIIIII 3y ago
The transactional aspect is specifically to compensate for not doing as they please, so what are you talking about?
- seandoe 3y ago
  Engaging in a compensational transaction can please both parties.
  - 111111IIIIIII 3y ago
    Maybe, or maybe they are risking their life, health, and dignity desperate to put a roof over their child's head for the night and you're profoundly ignorant or pretending to be.
    - vitehozonage 3y ago
      Most of the working class is selling the majority of their waking life-hours under the same circumstances, I suppose you see that fundamental foundation of our society as coercion and slavery too if you are consistent? I don't see much difference with a tech worker being coerced to spent 8+ hours a day building repulsive advertising and surveillance technologies to put a roof over their head. People sell their soul, mind and body in different ways.
      - 111111IIIIIII 3y ago
        > Most of the working class is selling the majority of their waking life-hours under the same circumstances, I suppose you see that fundamental foundation of our society as coercion and slavery too if you are consistent? Yes, but I'd choose another word than "foundation." > I don't see much difference with a tech worker being coerced to spent 8+ hours a day building repulsive advertising and surveillance technologies to put a roof over their head. People sell their soul, mind and body in different ways. Absolutely not. Your logic is vulgar. Transactional sex is a vice, so categorically different from software development. Furthermore, prostitution is a vice that undermines intimate sexual relations, both reproductive and otherwise. Family and intimacy mark a frontier of still-sacred relations that capital has thus far preserved in it's own interest. The nuclear family was wrought from villages as the smallest viable mobile labor reproduction unit. Society’s productive capacity straightforwardly depends on these sacred institutions. Software development threatens nothing of the sort. I can only imagine you are drinking libertarian kool aid, also a vice.
        vitehozonage 3y ago
        Our worldviews seem to be so different that I struggle to know where to begin with responding to that. I don't see these concepts of "vice" and sacredness, it seems strangely religious
        111111IIIIIII 3y ago
        If you hold nothing sacred, I can only assume you'd have no problem pimping your own mother? Would you?
        f6v 3y ago
        I strongly associate the strong desire to instantly label people with lower intelligence.
      - bunglei 3y ago
        > I don't see much difference with a tech worker being coerced to spent 8+ hours a day building repulsive advertising and surveillance technologies to put a roof over their head. Really? When was the last time your boss's customers put their dicks inside of you and filled your body with semen? Your cushy tech job is a world away from prostitution.
        webinvest 3y ago
        That seems less exploitive of labor. At least you can pick your hours, clients, sex acts, and pay. With the former job, you don’t have a choice anymore.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - seandoe 3y ago
      > The transactional aspect is specifically to compensate for not doing as they please, so what are you talking about? I'm just saying that this statement is categorically false, in that, there are people who engage in sex work at their pleasure. You're dismissal of their existence, in fact, proves your ignorance. https://youtu.be/cFSrxSBrgSc https://youtu.be/cFSrxSBrgSc
gameman144 3y ago
I tend to agree here, but there's a reasonable viewpoint that people shouldn't be able to consent to some things if they're assumed to be unreasonable or socially harmful. For instance, we disallow the selling of organs. I'm all for bodily autonomy, but this seems reasonable. At the very extreme case, one might say "I give you permission to murder me, if you provide for my family". While I agree that self-direction and autonomy are essential rights (pretty strongly, in fact), everyone puts limits on them. For some people, the dynamics of prostitution might be that limit. It's not the case for me, but reasonable people might draw the line there.
- reader7331 3y ago
  > people shouldn't be able to consent to some things if they're assumed to be unreasonable or socially harmful. I think this is the nub of it. When you strip away the BS, views on the legality of prostitution boil down to whether (safe) sex between strangers is (a) a harmful thing, or (b) a fun thing like a massage. Discussions centered on trafficking or abusive buyers are a red herring. These are relatively rare scenarios. We don't close down eBay or Craigslist because of the occasional bad actor; we police the bad actors.
  - teo_zero 3y ago
    Your reasoning is sound, but is based on this assumption: > These are relatively rare scenarios. I wonder if this is true...
- webinvest 3y ago
  We disallow the selling of organs due to the potential of selling someone else’s organs.
erenyeager 3y ago
The best approach to these sorts of crimes is to prevent people from beginning down these paths and rehabilitation and removal from general society for those who are actively committing the crimes and harming society. governments can do a lot to help provide for prostitutes to bring them out of that dark lifestyle. In my opinion, if someone engages in prostitution, they’re already engaging in antisocial behavior akin to violence, and there must be no tolerance for it. Slogans like sex work is work only serve to hide the true degrading nature of selling one’s body for sex.
HKH2 3y ago
Should Armin Meiwes have been imprisoned for killing and eating a voluntary victim?

Consenting adults should be free to do as they please

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

111111IIIIIII 3y ago

The transactional aspect is specifically to compensate for not doing as they please, so what are you talking about?

seandoe 3y ago
Engaging in a compensational transaction can please both parties.
- 111111IIIIIII 3y ago
  Maybe, or maybe they are risking their life, health, and dignity desperate to put a roof over their child's head for the night and you're profoundly ignorant or pretending to be.
  - vitehozonage 3y ago
    Most of the working class is selling the majority of their waking life-hours under the same circumstances, I suppose you see that fundamental foundation of our society as coercion and slavery too if you are consistent? I don't see much difference with a tech worker being coerced to spent 8+ hours a day building repulsive advertising and surveillance technologies to put a roof over their head. People sell their soul, mind and body in different ways.
    - 111111IIIIIII 3y ago
      > Most of the working class is selling the majority of their waking life-hours under the same circumstances, I suppose you see that fundamental foundation of our society as coercion and slavery too if you are consistent? Yes, but I'd choose another word than "foundation." > I don't see much difference with a tech worker being coerced to spent 8+ hours a day building repulsive advertising and surveillance technologies to put a roof over their head. People sell their soul, mind and body in different ways. Absolutely not. Your logic is vulgar. Transactional sex is a vice, so categorically different from software development. Furthermore, prostitution is a vice that undermines intimate sexual relations, both reproductive and otherwise. Family and intimacy mark a frontier of still-sacred relations that capital has thus far preserved in it's own interest. The nuclear family was wrought from villages as the smallest viable mobile labor reproduction unit. Society’s productive capacity straightforwardly depends on these sacred institutions. Software development threatens nothing of the sort. I can only imagine you are drinking libertarian kool aid, also a vice.
      - vitehozonage 3y ago
        Our worldviews seem to be so different that I struggle to know where to begin with responding to that. I don't see these concepts of "vice" and sacredness, it seems strangely religious
        111111IIIIIII 3y ago
        If you hold nothing sacred, I can only assume you'd have no problem pimping your own mother? Would you?
        f6v 3y ago
        I strongly associate the strong desire to instantly label people with lower intelligence.
    - bunglei 3y ago
      > I don't see much difference with a tech worker being coerced to spent 8+ hours a day building repulsive advertising and surveillance technologies to put a roof over their head. Really? When was the last time your boss's customers put their dicks inside of you and filled your body with semen? Your cushy tech job is a world away from prostitution.
      - webinvest 3y ago
        That seems less exploitive of labor. At least you can pick your hours, clients, sex acts, and pay. With the former job, you don’t have a choice anymore.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - seandoe 3y ago
    > The transactional aspect is specifically to compensate for not doing as they please, so what are you talking about? I'm just saying that this statement is categorically false, in that, there are people who engage in sex work at their pleasure. You're dismissal of their existence, in fact, proves your ignorance. https://youtu.be/cFSrxSBrgSc https://youtu.be/cFSrxSBrgSc

gameman144 3y ago

I tend to agree here, but there's a reasonable viewpoint that people shouldn't be able to consent to some things if they're assumed to be unreasonable or socially harmful. For instance, we disallow the selling of organs. I'm all for bodily autonomy, but this seems reasonable. At the very extreme case, one might say "I give you permission to murder me, if you provide for my family". While I agree that self-direction and autonomy are essential rights (pretty strongly, in fact), everyone puts limits on them. For some people, the dynamics of prostitution might be that limit. It's not the case for me, but reasonable people might draw the line there.

reader7331 3y ago
> people shouldn't be able to consent to some things if they're assumed to be unreasonable or socially harmful. I think this is the nub of it. When you strip away the BS, views on the legality of prostitution boil down to whether (safe) sex between strangers is (a) a harmful thing, or (b) a fun thing like a massage. Discussions centered on trafficking or abusive buyers are a red herring. These are relatively rare scenarios. We don't close down eBay or Craigslist because of the occasional bad actor; we police the bad actors.
- teo_zero 3y ago
  Your reasoning is sound, but is based on this assumption: > These are relatively rare scenarios. I wonder if this is true...
webinvest 3y ago
We disallow the selling of organs due to the potential of selling someone else’s organs.

erenyeager 3y ago

The best approach to these sorts of crimes is to prevent people from beginning down these paths and rehabilitation and removal from general society for those who are actively committing the crimes and harming society. governments can do a lot to help provide for prostitutes to bring them out of that dark lifestyle. In my opinion, if someone engages in prostitution, they’re already engaging in antisocial behavior akin to violence, and there must be no tolerance for it. Slogans like sex work is work only serve to hide the true degrading nature of selling one’s body for sex.

HKH2 3y ago

Should Armin Meiwes have been imprisoned for killing and eating a voluntary victim?