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Nature is not on the brink of collapse because of 8 billion people and human overpopulation is a scaremongering tactic that should have died 30 years ago. It's

Nature is not on the brink of collapse because of 8 billion people and human overpopulation is a scaremongering tactic that should have died 30 years ago. It's hard to continue reading your comment with such easily falsifiable information in your first paragraph. The Earth and nature will be totally fine in the end. The reality is animals provide a way of consuming resources efficiently that, sure, can be consumed by eating other plant based things but it's not as efficient as eating flesh. For me, emotional arguments about why I shouldn't eat animals don't sway me very much because of the undeniable fact that we're the apex predator on Earth. I reject any moral argument that we're supposed to respect nature and other species because of our intelligence. I don't believe we have a responsibility to other species and if we can get by in the world by enslaving all the animals and killing the rest that we can't I'm perfectly fine with that. We're just as natural as everything else on the Earth and I think it's weird to place ourselves outside the scope of nature or what's natural because we're more intelligent than everything else.

myshpa 3y ago
> not on the brink of collapse because of 8 billion people and human overpopulation Not overpopulation, maybe I was not clear enough. We would be fine if we didn't destroy, pollute and consume as much. > The Earth and nature will be totally fine in the end Yes, given few million years. Humans and animals we know may not be. I'd rather protect the biodiversity for our children, I don't look that far ahead. --- Since 1970, then, the size of animal populations for which data is available have declined by 69%, on average. https://ourworldindata.org/biodiversity#livestock-outweighs-wild-mammals-and-birds-ten-fold https://ourworldindata.org/biodiversity#livestock-outweighs-... Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans. But we can turn things around by reducing the amount of land we use for agriculture. https://ourworldindata.org/wild-mammal-decline https://ourworldindata.org/wild-mammal-decline Biodiversity conservation: The key is reducing meat consumption https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ To meet U.N. climate, biodiversity goals, 79% of plant cover must be saved, study https://news.mongabay.com/2023/06/to-meet-u-n-climate-biodiversity-goals-79-of-plant-cover-must-be-saved-study/ https://news.mongabay.com/2023/06/to-meet-u-n-climate-biodiv... Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2216573120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2216573120 UN Report: Nature’s Dangerous Decline ‘Unprecedented’; Species Extinction Rates ‘Accelerating’ https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/nature-decline-unprecedented-report/ https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/natur... The climate crisis and biodiversity crisis can't be approached separately, says study https://phys.org/news/2023-04-climate-crisis-biodiversity-approached.html https://phys.org/news/2023-04-climate-crisis-biodiversity-ap... Our global food system is the primary driver of biodiversity loss https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/press-release/our-global-food-system-primary-driver-biodiversity-loss https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/press-release/our-glob... ‘A wake-up call’: total weight of wild mammals less than 10% of humanity’s https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/18/a-wake-up-call-total-weight-of-wild-mammals-less-than-10-of-humanitys https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/18/a-wake-u... Ecological doom-loops: Why ecosystem collapses may occur much sooner than expected https://phys.org/news/2023-06-ecological-doom-loops-ecosystem-collapses-sooner.html https://phys.org/news/2023-06-ecological-doom-loops-ecosyste... Mass extinction of Earth's wildlife is closer than we think - study https://www.jpost.com/environment-and-climate-change/article-744003 https://www.jpost.com/environment-and-climate-change/article... Plummeting insect numbers 'threaten collapse of nature' https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/10/plummeting-insect-numbers-threaten-collapse-of-nature https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/10/plummeti... Destruction of world’s pristine rainforests soared in 2022 despite Cop26 pledge https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/27/destruction-of-worlds-pristine-rainforests-soared-in-2022-despite-cop26-pledge https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/27/destruct... Climate nears point of no return as land, sea temperatures break records, experts say https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/climate-nears-point-no-return-land-sea-temperatures-break-records-experts-2023-06-30/ https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/climate-nears-p... ... and so on and on ...
- evandale 3y ago
  I believe that biodiversity is worse off today than it was before and you don't have to prove that to me. I reject the premise that biodiversity is something we require to successfully live on Earth. > We're just as natural as everything else on the Earth and I think it's weird to place ourselves outside the scope of nature or what's natural because we're more intelligent than everything else. In other words: if we killed everything we don't raise ourselves and we're the only living things in the world that have freedom it would still be natural and we will still be part of nature. Humans don't transcend nature or what's natural.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    > I reject the premise that biodiversity is something we require to successfully live on Earth. It's too late here, I'm ready to sign off, so I apologize for using chatgpt for the response. "While it is understandable that you may hold a different perspective, scientific evidence strongly supports the importance of biodiversity for the well-being of our planet and our own survival. Biodiversity ensures the provision of vital ecosystem services such as clean air, water filtration, pollination, and soil fertility. It contributes to the stability and resilience of ecosystems, helping them withstand environmental changes and disturbances. Biodiversity also offers immense potential for scientific and medical advancements. Many of our medicines and treatments are derived from natural compounds found in plants, animals, and microorganisms. Additionally, diverse ecosystems offer opportunities for economic development through ecotourism and sustainable resource use. Furthermore, interconnected ecosystems form a complex web of life, where each species has its role and contributes to the overall functioning of the ecosystem. The loss of species and disruption of ecosystems can have cascading effects, impacting food security, water resources, and climate regulation. Preserving biodiversity is not just about valuing other species; it is about safeguarding the intricate web of life that supports our own existence. By recognizing and respecting the importance of biodiversity, we can strive for a more sustainable and harmonious relationship with the natural world, ensuring a healthier planet for future generations."
    - evandale 3y ago

myshpa 3y ago

> not on the brink of collapse because of 8 billion people and human overpopulation Not overpopulation, maybe I was not clear enough. We would be fine if we didn't destroy, pollute and consume as much. > The Earth and nature will be totally fine in the end Yes, given few million years. Humans and animals we know may not be. I'd rather protect the biodiversity for our children, I don't look that far ahead. --- Since 1970, then, the size of animal populations for which data is available have declined by 69%, on average. https://ourworldindata.org/biodiversity#livestock-outweighs-wild-mammals-and-birds-ten-fold https://ourworldindata.org/biodiversity#livestock-outweighs-... Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans. But we can turn things around by reducing the amount of land we use for agriculture. https://ourworldindata.org/wild-mammal-decline https://ourworldindata.org/wild-mammal-decline Biodiversity conservation: The key is reducing meat consumption https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ To meet U.N. climate, biodiversity goals, 79% of plant cover must be saved, study https://news.mongabay.com/2023/06/to-meet-u-n-climate-biodiversity-goals-79-of-plant-cover-must-be-saved-study/ https://news.mongabay.com/2023/06/to-meet-u-n-climate-biodiv... Farmland practices are driving bird population decline across Europe https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2216573120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2216573120 UN Report: Nature’s Dangerous Decline ‘Unprecedented’; Species Extinction Rates ‘Accelerating’ https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/nature-decline-unprecedented-report/ https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/natur... The climate crisis and biodiversity crisis can't be approached separately, says study https://phys.org/news/2023-04-climate-crisis-biodiversity-approached.html https://phys.org/news/2023-04-climate-crisis-biodiversity-ap... Our global food system is the primary driver of biodiversity loss https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/press-release/our-global-food-system-primary-driver-biodiversity-loss https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/press-release/our-glob... ‘A wake-up call’: total weight of wild mammals less than 10% of humanity’s https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/18/a-wake-up-call-total-weight-of-wild-mammals-less-than-10-of-humanitys https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/18/a-wake-u... Ecological doom-loops: Why ecosystem collapses may occur much sooner than expected https://phys.org/news/2023-06-ecological-doom-loops-ecosystem-collapses-sooner.html https://phys.org/news/2023-06-ecological-doom-loops-ecosyste... Mass extinction of Earth's wildlife is closer than we think - study https://www.jpost.com/environment-and-climate-change/article-744003 https://www.jpost.com/environment-and-climate-change/article... Plummeting insect numbers 'threaten collapse of nature' https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/10/plummeting-insect-numbers-threaten-collapse-of-nature https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/10/plummeti... Destruction of world’s pristine rainforests soared in 2022 despite Cop26 pledge https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/27/destruction-of-worlds-pristine-rainforests-soared-in-2022-despite-cop26-pledge https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/27/destruct... Climate nears point of no return as land, sea temperatures break records, experts say https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/climate-nears-point-no-return-land-sea-temperatures-break-records-experts-2023-06-30/ https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/climate-nears-p... ... and so on and on ...

evandale 3y ago
I believe that biodiversity is worse off today than it was before and you don't have to prove that to me. I reject the premise that biodiversity is something we require to successfully live on Earth. > We're just as natural as everything else on the Earth and I think it's weird to place ourselves outside the scope of nature or what's natural because we're more intelligent than everything else. In other words: if we killed everything we don't raise ourselves and we're the only living things in the world that have freedom it would still be natural and we will still be part of nature. Humans don't transcend nature or what's natural.
- myshpa 3y ago
  > I reject the premise that biodiversity is something we require to successfully live on Earth. It's too late here, I'm ready to sign off, so I apologize for using chatgpt for the response. "While it is understandable that you may hold a different perspective, scientific evidence strongly supports the importance of biodiversity for the well-being of our planet and our own survival. Biodiversity ensures the provision of vital ecosystem services such as clean air, water filtration, pollination, and soil fertility. It contributes to the stability and resilience of ecosystems, helping them withstand environmental changes and disturbances. Biodiversity also offers immense potential for scientific and medical advancements. Many of our medicines and treatments are derived from natural compounds found in plants, animals, and microorganisms. Additionally, diverse ecosystems offer opportunities for economic development through ecotourism and sustainable resource use. Furthermore, interconnected ecosystems form a complex web of life, where each species has its role and contributes to the overall functioning of the ecosystem. The loss of species and disruption of ecosystems can have cascading effects, impacting food security, water resources, and climate regulation. Preserving biodiversity is not just about valuing other species; it is about safeguarding the intricate web of life that supports our own existence. By recognizing and respecting the importance of biodiversity, we can strive for a more sustainable and harmonious relationship with the natural world, ensuring a healthier planet for future generations."
  - evandale 3y ago