4 ms·

Since they recorded 1000 swatting events in a year, I assume that most times swat is called their response is warranted - it gets tough to try to vet calls sent

by dmbche 3y ago

Since they recorded 1000 swatting events in a year, I assume that most times swat is called their response is warranted - it gets tough to try to vet calls sent to a very fast response group

jncfhnb 3y ago
[dead]
yieldcrv 3y ago
Funny because I would assume most times they are not warranted so do we have enough information to determine? or do we need to push for that first.
- TechBro8615 3y ago
  Yes, I would be very interested in the denominator of "legit" SWAT raids, specifically limited to only those for which prank calls are a false positive, i.e. real, time-sensitive emergency distress calls, and not prearranged raids where the police have a warrant.
patmcc 3y ago
That depends entirely on how many "my husband is going crazy with a shotgun" calls they get, doesn't it?
- biofunsf 3y ago
  I picked the above scenario because police calls for domestic disputes are incredibly common. This source[0] says they account for 15% to 50% of all police calls. Hundreds of women are murdered with guns by their intimate partners every year[1]. Also domestic violence calls are a big cause of police deaths though definitely not the #1 cause as Joe Biden erroneously claimed[2]. I was aiming to create a somewhat plausible 911 call, though having the wife shot while she was on the 911 call might have been a bit over the top. [0] https://www.domesticshelters.org/resources/statistics/law-enforcement-and-domestic-violence https://www.domesticshelters.org/resources/statistics/law-en... [1] https://everytownresearch.org/report/guns-and-violence-against-women-americas-uniquely-lethal-intimate-partner-violence-problem/ https://everytownresearch.org/report/guns-and-violence-again... [2] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/mar/15/joe-biden/joe-biden-says-domestic-violence-calls-prompt-most/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/mar/15/joe-biden/...
  - patmcc 3y ago
    The alternative to responding with SWAT isn't to do nothing, it's to respond with a less dangerous force (two/three/four officers in-uniform, knocking). We could easily default to non-SWAT unless there's very good evidence (i.e. not a single unconfirmed phone call) to believe SWAT is needed. The same way no-knock warrants should be almost never allowed. From your source 6 cops died in 2022 due to disorder/disturbance (domestic disturbance, civil disorder, etc.) - so 6 at most. So I don't think it's reasonable to think of that as a "big cause" of police deaths. Also, and this is a personal thing that annoys me, innocent people being shot/killed by police is strictly worse than police being shot/killed. Police are knowingly taking these risks, they're compensated for them, and they are wearing protective equipment. I'd rather a police officer be shot in a domestic dispute than a guy getting shot in a swatting incident.
    - biofunsf 3y ago
      Agree with all that!
    - jstarfish 3y ago
      > The alternative to responding with SWAT isn't to do nothing, it's to respond with a less dangerous force (two/three/four officers in-uniform, knocking). SWAT does not get called in to every domestic violence call. The one in discussion isn't a welfare check or noise complaint, it's an angry man with a shotgun in a near-hostage situation. He's already angry, and now threatened by being outnumbered, and knows the night will end with him in jail. Desperation++. You've escalated the situation and increased risk to everyone. This is America, not Japan. When the SWAT team gets involved, it's a disruption tactic to deny him time to think or act. > I'd rather a police officer be shot in a domestic dispute than a guy getting shot in a swatting incident. "We won't have your back if you fuck up, and we'll leave you for dead either way" is not a selling point for any career. This one isn't exactly popular to begin with. Without the hero worship, there is little incentive to go into public service. The money is better in the private sector. Ask me how I know. Firefighters and EMTs don't have to deal with this shit, so nobody has anything bad to say about them. We forgive their mistakes, even when people die.
  - 3y ago

by dmbche 3y ago

Since they recorded 1000 swatting events in a year, I assume that most times swat is called their response is warranted - it gets tough to try to vet calls sent to a very fast response group

jncfhnb 3y ago

[dead]

yieldcrv 3y ago

Funny because I would assume most times they are not warranted so do we have enough information to determine? or do we need to push for that first.

TechBro8615 3y ago
Yes, I would be very interested in the denominator of "legit" SWAT raids, specifically limited to only those for which prank calls are a false positive, i.e. real, time-sensitive emergency distress calls, and not prearranged raids where the police have a warrant.

patmcc 3y ago

That depends entirely on how many "my husband is going crazy with a shotgun" calls they get, doesn't it?

biofunsf 3y ago
I picked the above scenario because police calls for domestic disputes are incredibly common. This source[0] says they account for 15% to 50% of all police calls. Hundreds of women are murdered with guns by their intimate partners every year[1]. Also domestic violence calls are a big cause of police deaths though definitely not the #1 cause as Joe Biden erroneously claimed[2]. I was aiming to create a somewhat plausible 911 call, though having the wife shot while she was on the 911 call might have been a bit over the top. [0] https://www.domesticshelters.org/resources/statistics/law-enforcement-and-domestic-violence https://www.domesticshelters.org/resources/statistics/law-en... [1] https://everytownresearch.org/report/guns-and-violence-against-women-americas-uniquely-lethal-intimate-partner-violence-problem/ https://everytownresearch.org/report/guns-and-violence-again... [2] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/mar/15/joe-biden/joe-biden-says-domestic-violence-calls-prompt-most/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/mar/15/joe-biden/...
- patmcc 3y ago
  The alternative to responding with SWAT isn't to do nothing, it's to respond with a less dangerous force (two/three/four officers in-uniform, knocking). We could easily default to non-SWAT unless there's very good evidence (i.e. not a single unconfirmed phone call) to believe SWAT is needed. The same way no-knock warrants should be almost never allowed. From your source 6 cops died in 2022 due to disorder/disturbance (domestic disturbance, civil disorder, etc.) - so 6 at most. So I don't think it's reasonable to think of that as a "big cause" of police deaths. Also, and this is a personal thing that annoys me, innocent people being shot/killed by police is strictly worse than police being shot/killed. Police are knowingly taking these risks, they're compensated for them, and they are wearing protective equipment. I'd rather a police officer be shot in a domestic dispute than a guy getting shot in a swatting incident.
  - biofunsf 3y ago
    Agree with all that!
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    > The alternative to responding with SWAT isn't to do nothing, it's to respond with a less dangerous force (two/three/four officers in-uniform, knocking). SWAT does not get called in to every domestic violence call. The one in discussion isn't a welfare check or noise complaint, it's an angry man with a shotgun in a near-hostage situation. He's already angry, and now threatened by being outnumbered, and knows the night will end with him in jail. Desperation++. You've escalated the situation and increased risk to everyone. This is America, not Japan. When the SWAT team gets involved, it's a disruption tactic to deny him time to think or act. > I'd rather a police officer be shot in a domestic dispute than a guy getting shot in a swatting incident. "We won't have your back if you fuck up, and we'll leave you for dead either way" is not a selling point for any career. This one isn't exactly popular to begin with. Without the hero worship, there is little incentive to go into public service. The money is better in the private sector. Ask me how I know. Firefighters and EMTs don't have to deal with this shit, so nobody has anything bad to say about them. We forgive their mistakes, even when people die.
- 3y ago