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They should definitely still rush over in SWAT gear, but before going in guns blazing, they should verify what the situation is. They should assume the call may

They should definitely still rush over in SWAT gear, but before going in guns blazing, they should verify what the situation is. They should assume the call may be fake until it’s proven real. More recon would probably reveal that something doesn’t add up in most of these situations.

dmbche 3y ago
Since they recorded 1000 swatting events in a year, I assume that most times swat is called their response is warranted - it gets tough to try to vet calls sent to a very fast response group
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  [dead]
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  Funny because I would assume most times they are not warranted so do we have enough information to determine? or do we need to push for that first.
  - TechBro8615 3y ago
    Yes, I would be very interested in the denominator of "legit" SWAT raids, specifically limited to only those for which prank calls are a false positive, i.e. real, time-sensitive emergency distress calls, and not prearranged raids where the police have a warrant.
- patmcc 3y ago
  That depends entirely on how many "my husband is going crazy with a shotgun" calls they get, doesn't it?
  - biofunsf 3y ago
    I picked the above scenario because police calls for domestic disputes are incredibly common. This source[0] says they account for 15% to 50% of all police calls. Hundreds of women are murdered with guns by their intimate partners every year[1]. Also domestic violence calls are a big cause of police deaths though definitely not the #1 cause as Joe Biden erroneously claimed[2]. I was aiming to create a somewhat plausible 911 call, though having the wife shot while she was on the 911 call might have been a bit over the top. [0] https://www.domesticshelters.org/resources/statistics/law-enforcement-and-domestic-violence https://www.domesticshelters.org/resources/statistics/law-en... [1] https://everytownresearch.org/report/guns-and-violence-against-women-americas-uniquely-lethal-intimate-partner-violence-problem/ https://everytownresearch.org/report/guns-and-violence-again... [2] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/mar/15/joe-biden/joe-biden-says-domestic-violence-calls-prompt-most/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/mar/15/joe-biden/...
    - patmcc 3y ago
      The alternative to responding with SWAT isn't to do nothing, it's to respond with a less dangerous force (two/three/four officers in-uniform, knocking). We could easily default to non-SWAT unless there's very good evidence (i.e. not a single unconfirmed phone call) to believe SWAT is needed. The same way no-knock warrants should be almost never allowed. From your source 6 cops died in 2022 due to disorder/disturbance (domestic disturbance, civil disorder, etc.) - so 6 at most. So I don't think it's reasonable to think of that as a "big cause" of police deaths. Also, and this is a personal thing that annoys me, innocent people being shot/killed by police is strictly worse than police being shot/killed. Police are knowingly taking these risks, they're compensated for them, and they are wearing protective equipment. I'd rather a police officer be shot in a domestic dispute than a guy getting shot in a swatting incident.
      - biofunsf 3y ago
        Agree with all that!
      - jstarfish 3y ago
        > The alternative to responding with SWAT isn't to do nothing, it's to respond with a less dangerous force (two/three/four officers in-uniform, knocking). SWAT does not get called in to every domestic violence call. The one in discussion isn't a welfare check or noise complaint, it's an angry man with a shotgun in a near-hostage situation. He's already angry, and now threatened by being outnumbered, and knows the night will end with him in jail. Desperation++. You've escalated the situation and increased risk to everyone. This is America, not Japan. When the SWAT team gets involved, it's a disruption tactic to deny him time to think or act. > I'd rather a police officer be shot in a domestic dispute than a guy getting shot in a swatting incident. "We won't have your back if you fuck up, and we'll leave you for dead either way" is not a selling point for any career. This one isn't exactly popular to begin with. Without the hero worship, there is little incentive to go into public service. The money is better in the private sector. Ask me how I know. Firefighters and EMTs don't have to deal with this shit, so nobody has anything bad to say about them. We forgive their mistakes, even when people die.
BLKNSLVR 3y ago
Is SWAT really needed for that though? Is not "the police" enough?
- najarvg 3y ago
  Normally it would be, but unfortunately in a country where small portion of the population literally stockpile powerful guns permitted by law, I would, as a responding LEO, want to be prepared for the worst..
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    It's not merely a matter of stockpiled firearms, because, well, you know how it goes: "guns don't kill people". I think it's also a matter of urban gangsta warfare going on since time immemorial. The organized crime is rampant, and while the races change, the adversaries stay more or less the same. Since the 80s or so, you've had Crips and Bloods and everyone in between, with all their rap-video braggadoccio, ready to have a showdown with police at the drop of a hat. Ice-T, 2Pac, NWA, the flames have been stoked, and I mean, I guess it's not their fault, because it takes two to tango. The police have geared up and gotten ever-more militarized and hostile to ordinary citizens, wielding technology to match. So there's been an escalation. And that's why we have #BlackLivesMatter today. Not because cops are inherently evil and shooting innocents on purpose, but because both sides have been warring for decades, and that makes for itchy trigger fingers. So I think if pranksters are misusing SWAT teams for hoaxes and weaponizing them against their Fortnite adversaries, then perhaps it's a wake-up call to have a ceasefire, a disarmament, and both sides (or all sides) to stand down and rethink why we're all here.
    - BLKNSLVR 3y ago
      Agreed. I was going to add at the end of my comment something along the lines of "If just the police isn't good enough, we find ourselves further down an unpleasant spiral than we thought we were". I also agree with the person to whom you're replying though.
- jstarfish 3y ago

dmbche 3y ago

Since they recorded 1000 swatting events in a year, I assume that most times swat is called their response is warranted - it gets tough to try to vet calls sent to a very fast response group

jncfhnb 3y ago
[dead]
yieldcrv 3y ago
Funny because I would assume most times they are not warranted so do we have enough information to determine? or do we need to push for that first.
- TechBro8615 3y ago
  Yes, I would be very interested in the denominator of "legit" SWAT raids, specifically limited to only those for which prank calls are a false positive, i.e. real, time-sensitive emergency distress calls, and not prearranged raids where the police have a warrant.
patmcc 3y ago
That depends entirely on how many "my husband is going crazy with a shotgun" calls they get, doesn't it?
- biofunsf 3y ago
  I picked the above scenario because police calls for domestic disputes are incredibly common. This source[0] says they account for 15% to 50% of all police calls. Hundreds of women are murdered with guns by their intimate partners every year[1]. Also domestic violence calls are a big cause of police deaths though definitely not the #1 cause as Joe Biden erroneously claimed[2]. I was aiming to create a somewhat plausible 911 call, though having the wife shot while she was on the 911 call might have been a bit over the top. [0] https://www.domesticshelters.org/resources/statistics/law-enforcement-and-domestic-violence https://www.domesticshelters.org/resources/statistics/law-en... [1] https://everytownresearch.org/report/guns-and-violence-against-women-americas-uniquely-lethal-intimate-partner-violence-problem/ https://everytownresearch.org/report/guns-and-violence-again... [2] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/mar/15/joe-biden/joe-biden-says-domestic-violence-calls-prompt-most/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/mar/15/joe-biden/...
  - patmcc 3y ago
    The alternative to responding with SWAT isn't to do nothing, it's to respond with a less dangerous force (two/three/four officers in-uniform, knocking). We could easily default to non-SWAT unless there's very good evidence (i.e. not a single unconfirmed phone call) to believe SWAT is needed. The same way no-knock warrants should be almost never allowed. From your source 6 cops died in 2022 due to disorder/disturbance (domestic disturbance, civil disorder, etc.) - so 6 at most. So I don't think it's reasonable to think of that as a "big cause" of police deaths. Also, and this is a personal thing that annoys me, innocent people being shot/killed by police is strictly worse than police being shot/killed. Police are knowingly taking these risks, they're compensated for them, and they are wearing protective equipment. I'd rather a police officer be shot in a domestic dispute than a guy getting shot in a swatting incident.
    - biofunsf 3y ago
      Agree with all that!
    - jstarfish 3y ago
      > The alternative to responding with SWAT isn't to do nothing, it's to respond with a less dangerous force (two/three/four officers in-uniform, knocking). SWAT does not get called in to every domestic violence call. The one in discussion isn't a welfare check or noise complaint, it's an angry man with a shotgun in a near-hostage situation. He's already angry, and now threatened by being outnumbered, and knows the night will end with him in jail. Desperation++. You've escalated the situation and increased risk to everyone. This is America, not Japan. When the SWAT team gets involved, it's a disruption tactic to deny him time to think or act. > I'd rather a police officer be shot in a domestic dispute than a guy getting shot in a swatting incident. "We won't have your back if you fuck up, and we'll leave you for dead either way" is not a selling point for any career. This one isn't exactly popular to begin with. Without the hero worship, there is little incentive to go into public service. The money is better in the private sector. Ask me how I know. Firefighters and EMTs don't have to deal with this shit, so nobody has anything bad to say about them. We forgive their mistakes, even when people die.

BLKNSLVR 3y ago

Is SWAT really needed for that though? Is not "the police" enough?

najarvg 3y ago
Normally it would be, but unfortunately in a country where small portion of the population literally stockpile powerful guns permitted by law, I would, as a responding LEO, want to be prepared for the worst..
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  It's not merely a matter of stockpiled firearms, because, well, you know how it goes: "guns don't kill people". I think it's also a matter of urban gangsta warfare going on since time immemorial. The organized crime is rampant, and while the races change, the adversaries stay more or less the same. Since the 80s or so, you've had Crips and Bloods and everyone in between, with all their rap-video braggadoccio, ready to have a showdown with police at the drop of a hat. Ice-T, 2Pac, NWA, the flames have been stoked, and I mean, I guess it's not their fault, because it takes two to tango. The police have geared up and gotten ever-more militarized and hostile to ordinary citizens, wielding technology to match. So there's been an escalation. And that's why we have #BlackLivesMatter today. Not because cops are inherently evil and shooting innocents on purpose, but because both sides have been warring for decades, and that makes for itchy trigger fingers. So I think if pranksters are misusing SWAT teams for hoaxes and weaponizing them against their Fortnite adversaries, then perhaps it's a wake-up call to have a ceasefire, a disarmament, and both sides (or all sides) to stand down and rethink why we're all here.
  - BLKNSLVR 3y ago
    Agreed. I was going to add at the end of my comment something along the lines of "If just the police isn't good enough, we find ourselves further down an unpleasant spiral than we thought we were". I also agree with the person to whom you're replying though.
jstarfish 3y ago