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Whoops, I didn't mean to sound like a moral anti-realist (who believes what one person takes as morality is equally valid as another's) but re-reading my commen

Whoops, I didn't mean to sound like a moral anti-realist (who believes what one person takes as morality is equally valid as another's) but re-reading my comment may give that impression. It might indeed be nonsense to talk about a moral decline with someone who disagrees with the moral values held by oneself. It seems the only productive thing to talk about between two such people would be the reasons they disagree on their values and which values are right, and I'm not sure HN is the best place for those conversations. So I just felt people who agreed that those original statistics indicated a moral decline and those who disagreed were talking past each other and no discussion of quality would come from it, unless the root disagreement were addressed. Apologies if I spoke out of turn.

hairofadog 3y ago
All good here - you made me realize I had assumed a fixed definition of morality (coincidentally, mine), which obviously isn’t right. You changed my perspective.
vacuity 3y ago
I wholly agree with what you've stated in these comments about morality but I'd like to expound on moral relativism and my thoughts a bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism ("moral anti-realist" == "meta-ethical relativism"?) > This view contrasts with moral universalism, which argues that, even though well-intentioned persons disagree...there is still a meaningful sense in which an action could be more "moral" (morally preferable) than another Absolute moral relativism sounds terrible, but I also don't like the idea of being very constrained in my beliefs and actions. I don't think we can truly consider anything other than mathematical constructs to be objective, but I think that there are a few moral values (violence bad, blah blah) that all societies should follow, and everything else is fair game. In effect, there would be a few core principles that all other enforceable moral principles (which are tantamount to laws) are derived from, and everything else is to be judged in the court of society or not at all. There would also be a provision to allow units of organization (homes, businesses) to set reasonable contracts to uphold additional moral values. I think an escape hatch along those lines is most flexible without possibly violating the core values. I came up with some of that on the spot. Feel free to express (polite!) criticism.

hairofadog 3y ago

All good here - you made me realize I had assumed a fixed definition of morality (coincidentally, mine), which obviously isn’t right. You changed my perspective.

vacuity 3y ago

I wholly agree with what you've stated in these comments about morality but I'd like to expound on moral relativism and my thoughts a bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism ("moral anti-realist" == "meta-ethical relativism"?) > This view contrasts with moral universalism, which argues that, even though well-intentioned persons disagree...there is still a meaningful sense in which an action could be more "moral" (morally preferable) than another Absolute moral relativism sounds terrible, but I also don't like the idea of being very constrained in my beliefs and actions. I don't think we can truly consider anything other than mathematical constructs to be objective, but I think that there are a few moral values (violence bad, blah blah) that all societies should follow, and everything else is fair game. In effect, there would be a few core principles that all other enforceable moral principles (which are tantamount to laws) are derived from, and everything else is to be judged in the court of society or not at all. There would also be a provision to allow units of organization (homes, businesses) to set reasonable contracts to uphold additional moral values. I think an escape hatch along those lines is most flexible without possibly violating the core values. I came up with some of that on the spot. Feel free to express (polite!) criticism.