5 ms·

Care to elaborate? You don’t mind lots of probably very much intelligent animals being killed by accident? Why?

by 9dev 3y ago

thriftwy 3y ago
A classic dialogue from Dog's Heart, regarding starving German children, ensues.
ddoolin 3y ago
They should probably stop killing dolphins indiscriminately in the name of catching fish.
- 9dev 3y ago
  Only that doesn’t work with the current method of catching lots of fish. The industry tries (bycatch is annoying to them), but is unable to. That’s the issue.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
darksaints 3y ago
Global warming is heavily impacted by animal agriculture. The vegan solution is to stop consuming animals. But why can't we just stop eating bovines, which cause 80% of those emissions? Why can't we switch to chicken? Why can't we eat sardines? Why can't we modify industrial ag diets so they produce less enteric fermentation? Why can't we have carbon taxes so that the costs of remediation are priced into the meat? If you ask the vegan, none of that works...We MuSt ImEdIaTeLy CeAsE aLl HuMaN cOnSuMpTiOn Of AnImAlS!!!!!!!!! It's the same here. It's not good enough to better regulate fishing methods that minimize bycatch. It's not good enough to tax and penalize bycatch. It's not good enough to shift consumption to small pelagic forage fish that have negligible bycatch. It's not good enough to shift to farmed fish, or freshwater fish. Nothing is ever good enough...we must immediately discard human diets and cultures that have evolved over hundreds of thousands of years, and if we're not willing to do that, we obviously hate dolphins. Can you sense an eye-roll here? So here is my elaboration: vegans start from the end goal and then work backwards to find any reason to justify it, no matter how disconnected from reality it is. And it is always the same...the only way to solve every single problem on the planet is to stop consuming animal products. It lacks any form of intelligent thought or nuance, and it is an extremely disingenuous form of argument, so it gets the response it deserves: derision and dismissal. Come back when you want to have an actual conversation.
- myshpa 3y ago
  > If you ask the vegan, none of that works Yes, because there are now 8 billion people, and nature is on the brink of collapse. > It's not good enough to tax and penalize bycatch There are 5 mil. fishing boats, there is nobody who could reliably monitor them. Doesn't work. See Seaspiracy movie for an example. > vegans start from the end goal I became a vegan primarily due to environmental reasons. It's a logical conclusion when studying the issues of climate change, the anthropocene, deforestation and biodiversity loss. It's a complicated problem, and you would have to study the issue yourself, not enough space here. You'd have to read a lot of text that goes against your beliefs. Not many people are able or ready to do that. Many rather prefer to stay ignorant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance). Some links to get you started (more articles and papers @ https://www.plantbaseddata.org https://www.plantbaseddata.org): Which Diet Has the Least Environmental Impact on Our Planet? A Systematic Review of Vegan, Vegetarian and Omnivorous Diets https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/11/15/4110/htm https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/11/15/4110/htm How Compatible Are Western European Dietary Patterns to Climate Targets? Accounting for Uncertainty of Life Cycle Assessments by Applying a Probabilistic Approach https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 Biodiversity conservation: The key is reducing meat consumption https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ Livestock and climate change: what if the key actors in climate change are... cows, pigs, and chickens? https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Livestock-and-climate-change%3A-what-if-the-key-in-Goodland-Anhang/6704c7a0777c82357704d82b9ae8007c1197cb07?p2df https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Livestock-and-climate-... Without Changing Diets, Agriculture Alone Could Produce Enough Emissions to Surpass 1.5°C of Global Warming https://www.wri.org/insights/without-changing-diets-agriculture-alone-could-produce-enough-emissions-surpass-15degc https://www.wri.org/insights/without-changing-diets-agricult... Agriculture production as a major driver of the Earth system exceeding planetary boundaries https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320356605_Agriculture_production_as_a_major_driver_of_the_Earth_system_exceeding_planetary_boundaries https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320356605_Agricultu... Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding... If the world adopted a plant-based diet we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use https://ourworldindata.org/land-use https://ourworldindata.org/biodiversity https://ourworldindata.org/biodiversity > Come back when you want to have an actual conversation About how you want to keep eating meat even if it means total destruction of the environment? Do you have studies that show it's sustainable? Studies not paid for by meat & dairy industry? Inside big beef’s climate messaging machine: confuse, defend and downplay https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/03/beef-industry-public-relations-messaging-machine https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/03/beef-ind... Why Right-Wingers Are So Afraid of Men Eating Vegetables https://newrepublic.com/article/171781/meat-culture-war-crickets https://newrepublic.com/article/171781/meat-culture-war-cric... The meat industry is borrowing tactics from Big Oil to obfuscate the truth about climate change https://www.salon.com/2022/11/11/the-meat-industry-is-borrowing-tactics-from-big-oil-to-obfuscate-the-truth-about-climate-change/ https://www.salon.com/2022/11/11/the-meat-industry-is-borrow... The Big Beef With the Meat Industry’s Advertising Tactics https://medium.com/@jodi_64782/the-big-beef-with-the-meat-industrys-advertising-tactics-8de905010660 https://medium.com/@jodi_64782/the-big-beef-with-the-meat-in... If you have the facts, bring it on. Don't talk to me about culture, though (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7JE8j5Ncmw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7JE8j5Ncmw).

Care to elaborate? You don’t mind lots of probably very much intelligent animals being killed by accident? Why?

by 9dev 3y ago

Care to elaborate? You don’t mind lots of probably very much intelligent animals being killed by accident? Why?

thriftwy 3y ago

A classic dialogue from Dog's Heart, regarding starving German children, ensues.

ddoolin 3y ago

They should probably stop killing dolphins indiscriminately in the name of catching fish.

9dev 3y ago
Only that doesn’t work with the current method of catching lots of fish. The industry tries (bycatch is annoying to them), but is unable to. That’s the issue.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

darksaints 3y ago

Global warming is heavily impacted by animal agriculture. The vegan solution is to stop consuming animals. But why can't we just stop eating bovines, which cause 80% of those emissions? Why can't we switch to chicken? Why can't we eat sardines? Why can't we modify industrial ag diets so they produce less enteric fermentation? Why can't we have carbon taxes so that the costs of remediation are priced into the meat? If you ask the vegan, none of that works...We MuSt ImEdIaTeLy CeAsE aLl HuMaN cOnSuMpTiOn Of AnImAlS!!!!!!!!! It's the same here. It's not good enough to better regulate fishing methods that minimize bycatch. It's not good enough to tax and penalize bycatch. It's not good enough to shift consumption to small pelagic forage fish that have negligible bycatch. It's not good enough to shift to farmed fish, or freshwater fish. Nothing is ever good enough...we must immediately discard human diets and cultures that have evolved over hundreds of thousands of years, and if we're not willing to do that, we obviously hate dolphins. Can you sense an eye-roll here? So here is my elaboration: vegans start from the end goal and then work backwards to find any reason to justify it, no matter how disconnected from reality it is. And it is always the same...the only way to solve every single problem on the planet is to stop consuming animal products. It lacks any form of intelligent thought or nuance, and it is an extremely disingenuous form of argument, so it gets the response it deserves: derision and dismissal. Come back when you want to have an actual conversation.

myshpa 3y ago
> If you ask the vegan, none of that works Yes, because there are now 8 billion people, and nature is on the brink of collapse. > It's not good enough to tax and penalize bycatch There are 5 mil. fishing boats, there is nobody who could reliably monitor them. Doesn't work. See Seaspiracy movie for an example. > vegans start from the end goal I became a vegan primarily due to environmental reasons. It's a logical conclusion when studying the issues of climate change, the anthropocene, deforestation and biodiversity loss. It's a complicated problem, and you would have to study the issue yourself, not enough space here. You'd have to read a lot of text that goes against your beliefs. Not many people are able or ready to do that. Many rather prefer to stay ignorant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance). Some links to get you started (more articles and papers @ https://www.plantbaseddata.org https://www.plantbaseddata.org): Which Diet Has the Least Environmental Impact on Our Planet? A Systematic Review of Vegan, Vegetarian and Omnivorous Diets https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/11/15/4110/htm https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/11/15/4110/htm How Compatible Are Western European Dietary Patterns to Climate Targets? Accounting for Uncertainty of Life Cycle Assessments by Applying a Probabilistic Approach https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 Biodiversity conservation: The key is reducing meat consumption https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ Livestock and climate change: what if the key actors in climate change are... cows, pigs, and chickens? https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Livestock-and-climate-change%3A-what-if-the-key-in-Goodland-Anhang/6704c7a0777c82357704d82b9ae8007c1197cb07?p2df https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Livestock-and-climate-... Without Changing Diets, Agriculture Alone Could Produce Enough Emissions to Surpass 1.5°C of Global Warming https://www.wri.org/insights/without-changing-diets-agriculture-alone-could-produce-enough-emissions-surpass-15degc https://www.wri.org/insights/without-changing-diets-agricult... Agriculture production as a major driver of the Earth system exceeding planetary boundaries https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320356605_Agriculture_production_as_a_major_driver_of_the_Earth_system_exceeding_planetary_boundaries https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320356605_Agricultu... Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding... If the world adopted a plant-based diet we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use https://ourworldindata.org/land-use https://ourworldindata.org/biodiversity https://ourworldindata.org/biodiversity > Come back when you want to have an actual conversation About how you want to keep eating meat even if it means total destruction of the environment? Do you have studies that show it's sustainable? Studies not paid for by meat & dairy industry? Inside big beef’s climate messaging machine: confuse, defend and downplay https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/03/beef-industry-public-relations-messaging-machine https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/03/beef-ind... Why Right-Wingers Are So Afraid of Men Eating Vegetables https://newrepublic.com/article/171781/meat-culture-war-crickets https://newrepublic.com/article/171781/meat-culture-war-cric... The meat industry is borrowing tactics from Big Oil to obfuscate the truth about climate change https://www.salon.com/2022/11/11/the-meat-industry-is-borrowing-tactics-from-big-oil-to-obfuscate-the-truth-about-climate-change/ https://www.salon.com/2022/11/11/the-meat-industry-is-borrow... The Big Beef With the Meat Industry’s Advertising Tactics https://medium.com/@jodi_64782/the-big-beef-with-the-meat-industrys-advertising-tactics-8de905010660 https://medium.com/@jodi_64782/the-big-beef-with-the-meat-in... If you have the facts, bring it on. Don't talk to me about culture, though (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7JE8j5Ncmw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7JE8j5Ncmw).