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Can't wait until our technology allows us to talk to them. Some dolphins have more than twice the number of neurons we do. I bet they've got some interesting

Can't wait until our technology allows us to talk to them. Some dolphins have more than twice the number of neurons we do. I bet they've got some interesting things to say.

djxfade 3y ago
So long and thanks for all the fish
nicolashahn 3y ago
That'll be amazing, then we can give them jobs and make them pay taxes.
- prox 3y ago
  “For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.” - Douglas Adams
- nine_k 3y ago
  I remember that seals and dolphins were / are trained to patrol navy bases and vessels, so they are effectively employed by the state. I suppose their employer (e.g. DoD) pays 100% of the taxes for them though.
  - engineer_22 3y ago
    Let's wax philosophical on the tax implications of ancient chattel slavery :) Just kidding. Nice idea
nine_k 3y ago
I can imagine (but too lazy to write an proper SF story) a situation when scientists finally crack the code of cetacean languages and achieve contact with various whales. They encounter a sad, savage culture, while the whales inform them that they used to have a great and sophisticated intellectual culture, passed orally, but it was all destroyed during a genocide a couple centuries before.
- Hary06 3y ago
  It would be a nice story.
  - BuyMyBitcoins 3y ago
    A whale of a tale.
    - fsckboy 3y ago
      >a proper SF story and in my Humboldt opinion, it would have appeal well beyond the San Francisco area!
  - gumby 3y ago
    A good one, but not a nice one.
    - doublerabbit 3y ago
      Depends how the ending works out. A: Disney: "We all come to be the best of friends" B: Quentin Tarantino: "Whales recruit the other sea-life. Sentences all humans to death"
      - nine_k 3y ago
        Mr Tarantino, have you ever considered filming "Moby Dick"? (In my story, likely the larger whales would remain scornful of humans, mostly avoiding contact, to say nothing of cooperation.)
zgluck 3y ago
But have they built dolpin-gpt, or even dolphin-tcp? (You could argue they have something like dolpin-udp.)
gumby 3y ago
> Some dolphins have more than twice the number of neurons we do. Larger animals have more neurons because they have a larger surface area (full of sensors, that need to terminate someplace). Some animals have noses with very large surface area (lots of sensors). I suspect surface area of my Irish Wolfhound's nose is something like the size of a football pitch. I'd bet dolphins, seals, and the like have a lot more sensors/cm2 of skin than humans, and probably other important sensing as well that we don't need. Unlike, say, octopus, I'd expect the higher order reasoning of mammals to use structures somewhat similar to each other. I doubt think dolphins' brains devote much of those extra neurons to higher order reason (but this is speculation -- I'm no cetaceanologist, nor neurologist for that matter). > I bet they've got some interesting things to say. Probably much less than the average human, and that's a pretty low bar, even with a generous definition of "interesting"
- nine_k 3y ago
  Find out how dolphins sleep. They must have profound enough differences in how they experience consciousness, however you define it. (This makes the prospects of talking to them all the more interesting.)
- engineer_22 3y ago
  >I'd bet dolphins, seals, and the like have a lot more sensors/cm2 of skin than humans, and probably other important sensing as well that we don't need. That's interesting. For what reason should we presume sensors/cm2 is higher in aquatic than terrestrial species? Is sensation of flow across the skin very important to them? I was thinking about this myself and presumed the opposite, that proprioception is important but feeling each portion of the skin isnt so important, after all sensation across the skin for a swimming animal would be unending, like tinnitus for a man. Good thinking and glad we could connect.
  - yencabulator 3y ago
    Animals can detect prey/predators by sensing water pressure changes from their movement. Some water-based animals can detect electric impulses from muscles of their prey/predators. Here's some introductory text about shark senses: https://www.sharktrust.org/shark-senses https://www.sharktrust.org/shark-senses
engineer_22 3y ago
Fascinating idea. That we could fantasize to communicate to extra-terrestrial aliens but neglect communication with our intelligent earthly neighbors... It seems to me like a lost opportunity.
- jayGlow 3y ago
  I've read a few scifi stories that involve talking with dolphins, the ringworld series includes them as does revelation space. although they're typically fairly small roles.
goda90 3y ago
I love that it's Star Trek canon that whales and dolphins can be crewmembers in Starfleet. But it is kind of odd that it took an alien probe nearly destroying Earth before the Federation made contact with their own oceans.

Can't wait until our technology allows us to talk to them. Some dolphins have more than twice the number of neurons we do. I bet they've got some interesting things to say.

djxfade 3y ago

So long and thanks for all the fish

nicolashahn 3y ago

That'll be amazing, then we can give them jobs and make them pay taxes.

prox 3y ago
“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.” - Douglas Adams
nine_k 3y ago
I remember that seals and dolphins were / are trained to patrol navy bases and vessels, so they are effectively employed by the state. I suppose their employer (e.g. DoD) pays 100% of the taxes for them though.
- engineer_22 3y ago
  Let's wax philosophical on the tax implications of ancient chattel slavery :) Just kidding. Nice idea

nine_k 3y ago

I can imagine (but too lazy to write an proper SF story) a situation when scientists finally crack the code of cetacean languages and achieve contact with various whales. They encounter a sad, savage culture, while the whales inform them that they used to have a great and sophisticated intellectual culture, passed orally, but it was all destroyed during a genocide a couple centuries before.

Hary06 3y ago
It would be a nice story.
- BuyMyBitcoins 3y ago
  A whale of a tale.
  - fsckboy 3y ago
    >a proper SF story and in my Humboldt opinion, it would have appeal well beyond the San Francisco area!
- gumby 3y ago
  A good one, but not a nice one.
  - doublerabbit 3y ago
    Depends how the ending works out. A: Disney: "We all come to be the best of friends" B: Quentin Tarantino: "Whales recruit the other sea-life. Sentences all humans to death"
    - nine_k 3y ago
      Mr Tarantino, have you ever considered filming "Moby Dick"? (In my story, likely the larger whales would remain scornful of humans, mostly avoiding contact, to say nothing of cooperation.)

zgluck 3y ago

But have they built dolpin-gpt, or even dolphin-tcp? (You could argue they have something like dolpin-udp.)

gumby 3y ago

> Some dolphins have more than twice the number of neurons we do. Larger animals have more neurons because they have a larger surface area (full of sensors, that need to terminate someplace). Some animals have noses with very large surface area (lots of sensors). I suspect surface area of my Irish Wolfhound's nose is something like the size of a football pitch. I'd bet dolphins, seals, and the like have a lot more sensors/cm2 of skin than humans, and probably other important sensing as well that we don't need. Unlike, say, octopus, I'd expect the higher order reasoning of mammals to use structures somewhat similar to each other. I doubt think dolphins' brains devote much of those extra neurons to higher order reason (but this is speculation -- I'm no cetaceanologist, nor neurologist for that matter). > I bet they've got some interesting things to say. Probably much less than the average human, and that's a pretty low bar, even with a generous definition of "interesting"

nine_k 3y ago
Find out how dolphins sleep. They must have profound enough differences in how they experience consciousness, however you define it. (This makes the prospects of talking to them all the more interesting.)
engineer_22 3y ago
>I'd bet dolphins, seals, and the like have a lot more sensors/cm2 of skin than humans, and probably other important sensing as well that we don't need. That's interesting. For what reason should we presume sensors/cm2 is higher in aquatic than terrestrial species? Is sensation of flow across the skin very important to them? I was thinking about this myself and presumed the opposite, that proprioception is important but feeling each portion of the skin isnt so important, after all sensation across the skin for a swimming animal would be unending, like tinnitus for a man. Good thinking and glad we could connect.
- yencabulator 3y ago
  Animals can detect prey/predators by sensing water pressure changes from their movement. Some water-based animals can detect electric impulses from muscles of their prey/predators. Here's some introductory text about shark senses: https://www.sharktrust.org/shark-senses https://www.sharktrust.org/shark-senses

engineer_22 3y ago

Fascinating idea. That we could fantasize to communicate to extra-terrestrial aliens but neglect communication with our intelligent earthly neighbors... It seems to me like a lost opportunity.

jayGlow 3y ago
I've read a few scifi stories that involve talking with dolphins, the ringworld series includes them as does revelation space. although they're typically fairly small roles.

goda90 3y ago

I love that it's Star Trek canon that whales and dolphins can be crewmembers in Starfleet. But it is kind of odd that it took an alien probe nearly destroying Earth before the Federation made contact with their own oceans.