4 ms·

You could say that about any medication with side effects, so really that statement doesn't say much. I think a better rephrasing would be that these substance

You could say that about any medication with side effects, so really that statement doesn't say much. I think a better rephrasing would be that these substances are powerful, should be treated with respect, and have the potential for harm if misused. Furthermore, I think that it should be said that learning to use them should be done with an experienced mentor, in a controlled environment, and in a dosing ramp up that doesn't start off with a "heroic" dose. This used to be part of the cultural fabric of the more underground cultural aspects of psychonaut culture in times gone past; and before that, in how indigenous cultures have utilized these substances. But, I think the land rush in the commercialization and mainstreaming of the substance and its experience has resulted in an erosion around the the idea of responsible utilization that used to be there. Very similar arc, IMO, to the cannabis legalization cultural arc.

slibhb 3y ago
> You could say that about any medication with side effects, so really that statement doesn't say much. No you couldn't -- it depends how well the medication is understood/how much research exists. > I think a better rephrasing would be that these substances are powerful, should be treated with respect, and have the potential for harm if misused. Furthermore, I think that it should be said that learning to use them should be done with an experienced mentor, in a controlled environment, and in a dosing ramp up that doesn't start off with a "heroic" dose. We have no idea if "respecting" psychedelics has any effect, we don't have a good definition of "misuse" (outside of "if it negatively impacts your life, you're misusing it"), the idea of "mentors" is ill-defined and there's no evidence that it helps, and there's no evidence that "ramping up" is an effective way to avoid negative side effects. You're offering fake knowledge along the lines of "well something bad happened to him so he didn't 'respect' the drug". All you actually know is that you did drugs and didn't suffer negative side effects like this guy.
- yowlingcat 3y ago
  Look, people have been using these substances for millennia to the degree that it is an integrated spiritual practice across a number of civilizations. I'm not sure why you want to ignore history to suit your narrative but it's telling that you're not engaging with it and it weakens your point. All you've illustrated is that /you/ don't know or care to find out about how the substance has been utilized. That has nothing to do with whether such an understanding exists or not and whether /others/ know something you don't. Suit yourself.
  - slibhb 3y ago
    You're posting hearsay and anecdote and passing it off as "thousands of years of spiritual practice". As I said, we don't have a good theory of why some people have lasting, negative side effects from using these drugs. Anyone claiming otherwise is just wrong. Dressing up your speculation with words like "integration, set/setting, mentors, etc" doesn't make it any less speculative. It's also obvious why you believe this stuff: because it makes you feel more secure in your own use of these substances. It's much harder to admit that you're rolling the dice when you fuck around with your brain chemistry.
    - yowlingcat 3y ago
      If you want to pass off your own ignorance as fact and speculate about my motivations, be my guest. No skin off of my back. Just out of curiosity, what kind of experience, if any, do you have inside the field of managed healthcare?

slibhb 3y ago

> You could say that about any medication with side effects, so really that statement doesn't say much. No you couldn't -- it depends how well the medication is understood/how much research exists. > I think a better rephrasing would be that these substances are powerful, should be treated with respect, and have the potential for harm if misused. Furthermore, I think that it should be said that learning to use them should be done with an experienced mentor, in a controlled environment, and in a dosing ramp up that doesn't start off with a "heroic" dose. We have no idea if "respecting" psychedelics has any effect, we don't have a good definition of "misuse" (outside of "if it negatively impacts your life, you're misusing it"), the idea of "mentors" is ill-defined and there's no evidence that it helps, and there's no evidence that "ramping up" is an effective way to avoid negative side effects. You're offering fake knowledge along the lines of "well something bad happened to him so he didn't 'respect' the drug". All you actually know is that you did drugs and didn't suffer negative side effects like this guy.

yowlingcat 3y ago
Look, people have been using these substances for millennia to the degree that it is an integrated spiritual practice across a number of civilizations. I'm not sure why you want to ignore history to suit your narrative but it's telling that you're not engaging with it and it weakens your point. All you've illustrated is that /you/ don't know or care to find out about how the substance has been utilized. That has nothing to do with whether such an understanding exists or not and whether /others/ know something you don't. Suit yourself.
- slibhb 3y ago
  You're posting hearsay and anecdote and passing it off as "thousands of years of spiritual practice". As I said, we don't have a good theory of why some people have lasting, negative side effects from using these drugs. Anyone claiming otherwise is just wrong. Dressing up your speculation with words like "integration, set/setting, mentors, etc" doesn't make it any less speculative. It's also obvious why you believe this stuff: because it makes you feel more secure in your own use of these substances. It's much harder to admit that you're rolling the dice when you fuck around with your brain chemistry.
  - yowlingcat 3y ago
    If you want to pass off your own ignorance as fact and speculate about my motivations, be my guest. No skin off of my back. Just out of curiosity, what kind of experience, if any, do you have inside the field of managed healthcare?