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Nobody wants to discuss potential harms in a grassroots advocacy movement for legalization or normalization - we saw the same thing in decades past with cannabi

Nobody wants to discuss potential harms in a grassroots advocacy movement for legalization or normalization - we saw the same thing in decades past with cannabis. The reasons are understandable, but the results aren't great. I would rather see more openness up front even at the cost of complicating the message, than see folks end up with this kind of trouble because advocates chose not to be as honest about the risks as about the benefits.

kibwen 3y ago
> even at the cost of complicating the message The problem is that complicated messages don't scale. If your cause can't be reduced to a buzzphrase, you cannot achieve wide-spread change. I'm not trying to be deliberately edgy or cynical, it just seems like a fatal flaw of mass communication and human psychology.
- throwanem 3y ago
  Then maybe mass activism is the wrong approach with such a powerful and dangerous tool as these substances.
  - steveylang 3y ago
    I am 100% for decriminalization, but understand it's not a black and white issue. I don't disagree with your point, at the same time there's a part of me that thinks, "You can't outlaw stupid." I feel for the guy in the article, but whether psychedelics are legal or not this guy was just not getting the message (I don't mean metahphysically, I just mean realizing that yes psychedelics are a powerful thing): > "So my first psychedelic experience was when I was 20 years old in in Amsterdam. I took mushrooms and I had a hell of a trip like because I wasn't aware of dosages and don't know what type of dosage I took." And then a few years later we get to this- > "I was planning to do an ayahuasca retreat in Peru, and a friend of mine said why not smoke DMT here. I didn't know that I was doing one of the strongest psychedelics on earth. I didn't have any preparation." Like I said I really do feel for the guy and hopes he finds resolution, but what was he thinking? I also hope lots of people read his story. I also think that 'net-zero trauma' poster/slide is pretty cringey. Like you said, it's not that simple.
chasemedsker 3y ago
The downsides of hallucinogenic drugs have become a taboo. Even with reasonable people who have very little skin in the game, it’s akin to pushing a boulder up a hill just to get them to admit that cannabis can contribute to or worsen mental health issues.
pcthrowaway 3y ago
For what it's worth, I know hundreds of people who have done DMT and none of them have had the long-term effects described in the interview (not to negate that person's experience though, just to provide context about how rare it might be) I personally have more negative long-term effects (maybe a mild, persistent derealization and depersonalization, but also a complete lack of ability to think clearly) from LSD. I haven't done DMT in years, but when I did use it, I found a sense of peace and relaxation afterwards that I actually haven't encountered with any other psychedelic
- throwanem 3y ago
  No one is saying that psychedelics can't be used safely and be effective. No one, too, is saying that psychedelics must be used safely to be effective. Your comment argues toward the first, but it's the second that's under discussion.
- hammock 3y ago
  Outside the US? How were the experiences?
  - pcthrowaway 3y ago
    Not sure what you mean, but I probably can't help you find DMT beyond suggesting travel to places where it's legal or decriminalized. I'm not the person to ask whether it's a good thing for you, my own experience has been that people have almost always enjoyed having tried it, and often felt like they were benefitted by it

kibwen 3y ago

> even at the cost of complicating the message The problem is that complicated messages don't scale. If your cause can't be reduced to a buzzphrase, you cannot achieve wide-spread change. I'm not trying to be deliberately edgy or cynical, it just seems like a fatal flaw of mass communication and human psychology.

throwanem 3y ago
Then maybe mass activism is the wrong approach with such a powerful and dangerous tool as these substances.
- steveylang 3y ago
  I am 100% for decriminalization, but understand it's not a black and white issue. I don't disagree with your point, at the same time there's a part of me that thinks, "You can't outlaw stupid." I feel for the guy in the article, but whether psychedelics are legal or not this guy was just not getting the message (I don't mean metahphysically, I just mean realizing that yes psychedelics are a powerful thing): > "So my first psychedelic experience was when I was 20 years old in in Amsterdam. I took mushrooms and I had a hell of a trip like because I wasn't aware of dosages and don't know what type of dosage I took." And then a few years later we get to this- > "I was planning to do an ayahuasca retreat in Peru, and a friend of mine said why not smoke DMT here. I didn't know that I was doing one of the strongest psychedelics on earth. I didn't have any preparation." Like I said I really do feel for the guy and hopes he finds resolution, but what was he thinking? I also hope lots of people read his story. I also think that 'net-zero trauma' poster/slide is pretty cringey. Like you said, it's not that simple.

chasemedsker 3y ago

The downsides of hallucinogenic drugs have become a taboo. Even with reasonable people who have very little skin in the game, it’s akin to pushing a boulder up a hill just to get them to admit that cannabis can contribute to or worsen mental health issues.

pcthrowaway 3y ago

For what it's worth, I know hundreds of people who have done DMT and none of them have had the long-term effects described in the interview (not to negate that person's experience though, just to provide context about how rare it might be) I personally have more negative long-term effects (maybe a mild, persistent derealization and depersonalization, but also a complete lack of ability to think clearly) from LSD. I haven't done DMT in years, but when I did use it, I found a sense of peace and relaxation afterwards that I actually haven't encountered with any other psychedelic

throwanem 3y ago
No one is saying that psychedelics can't be used safely and be effective. No one, too, is saying that psychedelics must be used safely to be effective. Your comment argues toward the first, but it's the second that's under discussion.
hammock 3y ago
Outside the US? How were the experiences?
- pcthrowaway 3y ago
  Not sure what you mean, but I probably can't help you find DMT beyond suggesting travel to places where it's legal or decriminalized. I'm not the person to ask whether it's a good thing for you, my own experience has been that people have almost always enjoyed having tried it, and often felt like they were benefitted by it