4 ms·

Interesting thing is that it is not legal everywhere in the world in such away. Fair use is a concept prominent in the US and not established in Europe (the dat

by riedel 3y ago

Interesting thing is that it is not legal everywhere in the world in such away. Fair use is a concept prominent in the US and not established in Europe (the datamining directive is a bit more limiting). Also the concept of informational self-determination does not really exist in the US despite the fact that the UN statements on human rights in the digital age clearly point in this direction. This is all 'wild west' to me as a European, but somehow I wonder if there is any guns that work to protect yourself by means of self-justice.

nomel 3y ago
How does this work for data brokers? For example, if a data broker legally collects the data in the US, then sells it elsewhere, where it could not be legally scraped?
- LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
  I think that generally if the customer hires you for something that is legal in general in their country, like price comparison, that they're fine if you employ means that wouldn't be legal for them, such as automated scraping, as long as it's legal for you.
dantheman 3y ago
The concept of informational self-determination ends when you put the information out in public... you self determine what is public and what isn't...
- wpietri 3y ago
  That's obviously not true. Legally, for example, both copyright and trademark protect public information from some kinds of use. In many places, artists also have moral rights: https://www.copyrightlaws.com/moral-rights-in-u-s-copyright-law/ https://www.copyrightlaws.com/moral-rights-in-u-s-copyright-... More importantly, the laws are representations of human feeling and social negotiation. Copyright law grew out of a complex array of beliefs and interests. E.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Anne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Anne It could be that the various "AI" generative models are legal under current law. But it could also be that this is one of those things, like the printing press, that causes people to say, "Hey, that's not right," and change the law to rule out something that was previously legal.
freitzkriesler2 3y ago
This is off topic but I found this phrase coming from a European hilarious. "This is all 'wild west' to me as a European, but somehow I wonder if there is any guns that work to protect yourself by means of self-justice."
- MandieD 3y ago
  "Wild West" is a common way to refer to American-style business decisions in Germany. I vaguely remember a Stern magazine cover from around 2004, depicting a giant cowboy boot with "GM" decorated with red, white and blue coming down on a crowd of people standing in the shape of the Opel logo and titled something like "Der Wild-West-Method." It was clearly not a compliment. (Correction: GM had owned Opel for decades at that point, but was getting more aggressive with how it was run)
  - vidarh 3y ago
    In Norway, while we use "vill vest" (wild west) as well, we also use "Texas" as a synonym for "crazy". It's not necessarily negative ("that party was completely Texas" could imply it was crazy in a fun way depending on context) but it often is implying chaos and lawlessness.

by riedel 3y ago

nomel 3y ago

How does this work for data brokers? For example, if a data broker legally collects the data in the US, then sells it elsewhere, where it could not be legally scraped?

LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
I think that generally if the customer hires you for something that is legal in general in their country, like price comparison, that they're fine if you employ means that wouldn't be legal for them, such as automated scraping, as long as it's legal for you.

dantheman 3y ago

The concept of informational self-determination ends when you put the information out in public... you self determine what is public and what isn't...

wpietri 3y ago
That's obviously not true. Legally, for example, both copyright and trademark protect public information from some kinds of use. In many places, artists also have moral rights: https://www.copyrightlaws.com/moral-rights-in-u-s-copyright-law/ https://www.copyrightlaws.com/moral-rights-in-u-s-copyright-... More importantly, the laws are representations of human feeling and social negotiation. Copyright law grew out of a complex array of beliefs and interests. E.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Anne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Anne It could be that the various "AI" generative models are legal under current law. But it could also be that this is one of those things, like the printing press, that causes people to say, "Hey, that's not right," and change the law to rule out something that was previously legal.

freitzkriesler2 3y ago

This is off topic but I found this phrase coming from a European hilarious. "This is all 'wild west' to me as a European, but somehow I wonder if there is any guns that work to protect yourself by means of self-justice."

MandieD 3y ago
"Wild West" is a common way to refer to American-style business decisions in Germany. I vaguely remember a Stern magazine cover from around 2004, depicting a giant cowboy boot with "GM" decorated with red, white and blue coming down on a crowd of people standing in the shape of the Opel logo and titled something like "Der Wild-West-Method." It was clearly not a compliment. (Correction: GM had owned Opel for decades at that point, but was getting more aggressive with how it was run)
- vidarh 3y ago
  In Norway, while we use "vill vest" (wild west) as well, we also use "Texas" as a synonym for "crazy". It's not necessarily negative ("that party was completely Texas" could imply it was crazy in a fun way depending on context) but it often is implying chaos and lawlessness.