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You realize we can do both right? Forgive the loans AND tackle the rising cost of tuition by nationalizing? I swear it’s this same myopic response everyone, no

You realize we can do both right? Forgive the loans AND tackle the rising cost of tuition by nationalizing? I swear it’s this same myopic response everyone, no one can ever imagine there’s a step two.

rqtwteye 3y ago
"Forgive the loans AND tackle the rising cost of tuition by nationalizing? " Have you seen any efforts for tackling the rising cost? I haven't. They have spent a ton of energy on a one-off stunt and have done absolutely nothing to tackle real issue.
- oddtuple 3y ago
  Yes, this has been a national issue with bills and campaigns for almost as long as I can remember. What do you mean?
sanderjd 3y ago
Forgiving the loans makes any other legislative solution vanishingly unlikely. Politicians love to just kick cans down the road. Forgiving student loans at the beginning of every new administration would be much easier than pursuing an actual policy to attack the problem legislatively.
- oddtuple 3y ago
  I honestly don’t know what to say to this. If the meat of your argument is “they’ll never do the right thing, they’ll just keep stalling “, it kinda feels like you just don’t have faith in our government at all. In which case there’s nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    That isn't the meat of my argument. I think it is much more likely that they'll come up with new legislation that is actually targeted at the problem, if they don't just forgive the debt. I think people are more likely to do the democracy stuff - voting for and influencing representatives who have plans to fix this - if they still see it as a problem to be solved, rather than something that doesn't affect them due to their debt having been forgiven already.
    - oddtuple 3y ago
      I’m flabbergasted at the reasoning here, I see it the exact opposite. Give people breathing room and then they’ll be able to do the democracy stuff.
      - sanderjd 3y ago
        (Aside: You've started every reply you've written to me with some sort of "I don't even know what to say" or "I'm flabbergasted". I'm not sure if this is just a rhetorical tick you have, or if it means that maybe you should sit with what you've read for a bit and think it over until you know what to say or are no longer flabbergasted by it. I don't find what you're saying flabbergasting, I just disagree. I think you could perhaps reach a similar place with what I'm saying if you take some time to think about it.) People don't need "breathing room" to care about a political issue. People care about issues that are affecting them. You clearly care about this issue because (from your comments today) it is clearly affecting you. You aren't going to suddenly care more about whether college administrators are or aren't incentivized to raise the costs of college after you've been freed from the clutches of your student debt and have more room to breathe. You'll move on to caring about the next thing that is affecting your life directly. That's not a criticism of you or anybody, it's just the natural reaction.
        oddtuple 3y ago
        I’m done. You’re not engaging with what I was saying, and instead are talking down to me and others like we only care about ourselves. Please, please try to listen to the points people are making. Your entire first paragraph is literally gaslighting and talking down to me and others.
        sanderjd 3y ago
        I have engaged you at every single point, and will continue to if you choose to continue making arguments. I have been listening to your points, but frankly so far they haven't been very good ones. I think what you're doing here is just throwing your hands up in frustration that not everyone just immediately agrees with what you believe to be the obvious conclusions here, rather than making convincing arguments for what you believe. By my first paragraph, I assume you mean the parenthetical at the beginning? If so, that isn't what "gaslighting" means, and while I can see how you read it as talking down to you, it can't be talking down to anyone else, because it is solely responding to a particular style in a few comments you specifically have written.

rqtwteye 3y ago

"Forgive the loans AND tackle the rising cost of tuition by nationalizing? " Have you seen any efforts for tackling the rising cost? I haven't. They have spent a ton of energy on a one-off stunt and have done absolutely nothing to tackle real issue.

oddtuple 3y ago
Yes, this has been a national issue with bills and campaigns for almost as long as I can remember. What do you mean?

sanderjd 3y ago

Forgiving the loans makes any other legislative solution vanishingly unlikely. Politicians love to just kick cans down the road. Forgiving student loans at the beginning of every new administration would be much easier than pursuing an actual policy to attack the problem legislatively.

oddtuple 3y ago
I honestly don’t know what to say to this. If the meat of your argument is “they’ll never do the right thing, they’ll just keep stalling “, it kinda feels like you just don’t have faith in our government at all. In which case there’s nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  That isn't the meat of my argument. I think it is much more likely that they'll come up with new legislation that is actually targeted at the problem, if they don't just forgive the debt. I think people are more likely to do the democracy stuff - voting for and influencing representatives who have plans to fix this - if they still see it as a problem to be solved, rather than something that doesn't affect them due to their debt having been forgiven already.
  - oddtuple 3y ago
    I’m flabbergasted at the reasoning here, I see it the exact opposite. Give people breathing room and then they’ll be able to do the democracy stuff.
    - sanderjd 3y ago
      (Aside: You've started every reply you've written to me with some sort of "I don't even know what to say" or "I'm flabbergasted". I'm not sure if this is just a rhetorical tick you have, or if it means that maybe you should sit with what you've read for a bit and think it over until you know what to say or are no longer flabbergasted by it. I don't find what you're saying flabbergasting, I just disagree. I think you could perhaps reach a similar place with what I'm saying if you take some time to think about it.) People don't need "breathing room" to care about a political issue. People care about issues that are affecting them. You clearly care about this issue because (from your comments today) it is clearly affecting you. You aren't going to suddenly care more about whether college administrators are or aren't incentivized to raise the costs of college after you've been freed from the clutches of your student debt and have more room to breathe. You'll move on to caring about the next thing that is affecting your life directly. That's not a criticism of you or anybody, it's just the natural reaction.
      - oddtuple 3y ago
        I’m done. You’re not engaging with what I was saying, and instead are talking down to me and others like we only care about ourselves. Please, please try to listen to the points people are making. Your entire first paragraph is literally gaslighting and talking down to me and others.
        sanderjd 3y ago
        I have engaged you at every single point, and will continue to if you choose to continue making arguments. I have been listening to your points, but frankly so far they haven't been very good ones. I think what you're doing here is just throwing your hands up in frustration that not everyone just immediately agrees with what you believe to be the obvious conclusions here, rather than making convincing arguments for what you believe. By my first paragraph, I assume you mean the parenthetical at the beginning? If so, that isn't what "gaslighting" means, and while I can see how you read it as talking down to you, it can't be talking down to anyone else, because it is solely responding to a particular style in a few comments you specifically have written.