4 ms·

Student debt cancellation was a cheap scheme to buy votes from some of the nation's dumbest. Most of the people underwater on student debt were seeking useless

Student debt cancellation was a cheap scheme to buy votes from some of the nation's dumbest. Most of the people underwater on student debt were seeking useless degrees in the first place, with no practical plan to pay back the debt from day one. It's similar to expecting the government to pay off your credit card bill after buying that jet ski.

barbazoo 3y ago
Would this proposal also have included tuition free education or would future generations still accumulate debt for overpriced education?
- housemusicfan 3y ago
  It's a complex problem. Personally I don't think we should be issuing loans for degrees which will not render a successful career path in which to pay back that loan. Similar to how when you apply for a mortgage or other loan, your income and other means of paying the loan back are verified and approved before the loan is granted. Maybe one of the Europeans can chime in, don't the Germans offer tuition free education BUT it must be for a productive degree (e.g. STEM) and there are serious academic qualifications that have to be met. At that point you can just consider it a government-funded scholarship, it's not free money, there are conditions to be met.
  - barbazoo 3y ago
    I'm not aware of a STEM-only tuition-free education. Having grown up there my gut feeling is that that would be against their spirit. AFAIR all public education is tuition free and only has administrative cost associated.
  - avgDev 3y ago
    This from polish gov site: Full-time studies (in the Polish language) at the state Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) are free for Polish students and foreigners who commence studies in Poland on terms applicable to Polish citizens (see: define your status). These include citizens of the EU/EEA and students who hold the Polish Charter (Karta Polaka). All other foreigners are required to pay tuition fees that on average are the following: EUR 2000 per year for the first, second and long cycle studies, EUR 3000 per year for postgraduate as well as scientific, arts, specialist and post-doctoral internships, EUR 2000 per year for an annual preparatory Polish language course to commence studies in Polish
avgDev 3y ago
While I agree, read my other comment. I think we really need to tackle this. Some people just make stupid decisions. Maybe they don't know any better? Maybe they are dreamers? Someone I know personally got a "useless" degree, I have told her multiple times to do research on what prospects she will have after graduation and what kind of ROI she can expect. She got the loans anyway and ended up taking a job that she could have gotten without the education. Total waste of 4 years. I think art is essential for us humans, but do we need art degrees? We also need to tackle the cost of higher education.
- barbazoo 3y ago
  I would say yes, a society where people study what excites them is a desirable thing. Totally incompatibile with reality nowadays it seems but desirable nonetheless. In other words, I'd like to live in a world where people can follow their passion and don't have to worry about paying their medical bills. I think that makes for a more interesting society.
  - avgDev 3y ago
    After thinking about this I think capitalism, which has been working pretty good for me might be the cause of my existential depression. I never considered until I read your comment and it resonated with me. All my decisions are based on efficiency and ROI. I have build up a decent net worth but my happiness has been trending down.
    - barbazoo 3y ago
      It's not your fault, blame those early homo sapiens and their agricultural revolution.
autopilot23 3y ago
Actually medical students have the most loans, so unless you think that medical professionals are useless or that medicine should only be practiced by the rich, you should reconsider your views. In most countries around the world higher education is free (or almost free) if you have the grades to be admitted, it's very a natural process. The fact that you have to take enormous debts to be allowed to study (which is your only hope for social mobility) in the U.S is the exception and is honestly crazy to me. How can you even speak of 'merit' in such society?
- Alupis 3y ago
  > so unless you think that medical professionals are useless or that medicine should only be practiced by the rich, you should reconsider your views. Doctors and medical professionals are among the highest paid in this country[1]. Paying off their student loans makes the least sense. > The fact that you have to take enormous debts to be allowed to study (which is your only hope for social mobility) This is so absurdly false. It's a false narrative that's been pushed by higher-learning institutions for decades, and now regular people believe it. You do not need a piece of paper to earn a tremendous amount in this country. So very many blue-collar jobs earn six figures annually. What's required to have social and economic mobility is a work ethic and skill. It's that simple. [1] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/highest-paying.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/highest-paying.htm
  - enterprise_cog 3y ago
    Cite your sources about all those six figure blue collar jobs.
    - Alupis 3y ago
      One google search turned up a bunch[1]. The thing they all have in common? Hard work, and skill. If you're skill-less, you aren't going to earn well, ie. if someone else can be trained to do your job in a day, you are not going to earn well. It's a myth you need a piece of paper to earn well and live well. It needs to die. We puppy-mill thousands of useless graduates each year and then are shocked they earn so little doing basic office work. In some cases, it's a complete inversion of what people expect - more degree less pay. [1] https://theinterviewguys.com/highest-paying-blue-collar-jobs/ https://theinterviewguys.com/highest-paying-blue-collar-jobs...

barbazoo 3y ago

Would this proposal also have included tuition free education or would future generations still accumulate debt for overpriced education?

housemusicfan 3y ago
It's a complex problem. Personally I don't think we should be issuing loans for degrees which will not render a successful career path in which to pay back that loan. Similar to how when you apply for a mortgage or other loan, your income and other means of paying the loan back are verified and approved before the loan is granted. Maybe one of the Europeans can chime in, don't the Germans offer tuition free education BUT it must be for a productive degree (e.g. STEM) and there are serious academic qualifications that have to be met. At that point you can just consider it a government-funded scholarship, it's not free money, there are conditions to be met.
- barbazoo 3y ago
  I'm not aware of a STEM-only tuition-free education. Having grown up there my gut feeling is that that would be against their spirit. AFAIR all public education is tuition free and only has administrative cost associated.
- avgDev 3y ago
  This from polish gov site: Full-time studies (in the Polish language) at the state Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) are free for Polish students and foreigners who commence studies in Poland on terms applicable to Polish citizens (see: define your status). These include citizens of the EU/EEA and students who hold the Polish Charter (Karta Polaka). All other foreigners are required to pay tuition fees that on average are the following: EUR 2000 per year for the first, second and long cycle studies, EUR 3000 per year for postgraduate as well as scientific, arts, specialist and post-doctoral internships, EUR 2000 per year for an annual preparatory Polish language course to commence studies in Polish

avgDev 3y ago

While I agree, read my other comment. I think we really need to tackle this. Some people just make stupid decisions. Maybe they don't know any better? Maybe they are dreamers? Someone I know personally got a "useless" degree, I have told her multiple times to do research on what prospects she will have after graduation and what kind of ROI she can expect. She got the loans anyway and ended up taking a job that she could have gotten without the education. Total waste of 4 years. I think art is essential for us humans, but do we need art degrees? We also need to tackle the cost of higher education.

barbazoo 3y ago
I would say yes, a society where people study what excites them is a desirable thing. Totally incompatibile with reality nowadays it seems but desirable nonetheless. In other words, I'd like to live in a world where people can follow their passion and don't have to worry about paying their medical bills. I think that makes for a more interesting society.
- avgDev 3y ago
  After thinking about this I think capitalism, which has been working pretty good for me might be the cause of my existential depression. I never considered until I read your comment and it resonated with me. All my decisions are based on efficiency and ROI. I have build up a decent net worth but my happiness has been trending down.
  - barbazoo 3y ago
    It's not your fault, blame those early homo sapiens and their agricultural revolution.

autopilot23 3y ago

Actually medical students have the most loans, so unless you think that medical professionals are useless or that medicine should only be practiced by the rich, you should reconsider your views. In most countries around the world higher education is free (or almost free) if you have the grades to be admitted, it's very a natural process. The fact that you have to take enormous debts to be allowed to study (which is your only hope for social mobility) in the U.S is the exception and is honestly crazy to me. How can you even speak of 'merit' in such society?

Alupis 3y ago
> so unless you think that medical professionals are useless or that medicine should only be practiced by the rich, you should reconsider your views. Doctors and medical professionals are among the highest paid in this country[1]. Paying off their student loans makes the least sense. > The fact that you have to take enormous debts to be allowed to study (which is your only hope for social mobility) This is so absurdly false. It's a false narrative that's been pushed by higher-learning institutions for decades, and now regular people believe it. You do not need a piece of paper to earn a tremendous amount in this country. So very many blue-collar jobs earn six figures annually. What's required to have social and economic mobility is a work ethic and skill. It's that simple. [1] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/highest-paying.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/highest-paying.htm
- enterprise_cog 3y ago
  Cite your sources about all those six figure blue collar jobs.
  - Alupis 3y ago
    One google search turned up a bunch[1]. The thing they all have in common? Hard work, and skill. If you're skill-less, you aren't going to earn well, ie. if someone else can be trained to do your job in a day, you are not going to earn well. It's a myth you need a piece of paper to earn well and live well. It needs to die. We puppy-mill thousands of useless graduates each year and then are shocked they earn so little doing basic office work. In some cases, it's a complete inversion of what people expect - more degree less pay. [1] https://theinterviewguys.com/highest-paying-blue-collar-jobs/ https://theinterviewguys.com/highest-paying-blue-collar-jobs...